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Thread: Just a thought. . .

  1. #11
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    May I propose that when someone is asked what they believe they give a political answer. Perhaps, it has nothing to do with education but with human nature .... and the only reason anyone says what they say is because it conforms with the groups they identify with.

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  3. #12
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    That would include scientists.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DL View Post
    That would include scientists.
    My formal training is in Mining Engineering yet I had a successful career in engineering
    in the aircraft industry. At the time I went to college you were looked upon as someone
    to pump knowledge into, today you are a revenue source. We were thoroughly trained
    in how to make a rational decision. It was that way in many fields in those days.

    Someone who can rationalize an issue to meet a desired outcome is not a scientist, they
    are someone who places their individual desires above rational behavior.
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

    The world is a dangerous place to live. Not because of those who are evil, but because of those who
    choose to do nothing about that! Einstein

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  6. #14
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Eric,

    If it's true that Alabama is no longer encouraging preventative measures and the majority are no longer following them, we'd expect the infection rate to continue at it's present level or increase. Given that black Americans form about 27% of the population, and as a group they are disproportionately affected by COVID-19 and have higher death rates, that's not good news.

    I hope things turn out better than I fear they will, and not just for Alabamians.

    Eugene
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 05-25-2020 at 03:35 AM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

  7. #15
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    If this virus pandemic was being dealt with from a purely scientific standpoint I think the current situation would be different.
    But, it has now been politicized into what I call the "Dem-Panic" and the science itself has been politicized.

    For an example;
    "Wear a mask"
    "A mask does little good"

    Both positions from the same renowned scientist.
    And There are more statements and positions that are contradictory and confusing.

    I guess you pick and choose the science that suits you!

    Reminds me of Thomas Dolby!
    "She Blinded Me with Science!"
    Last edited by road kill; 05-25-2020 at 06:48 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

    So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory, the MOMENT." ~ Aldo Leopold

  8. #16
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Stan,

    In regard to the political stuff, I agree.

    Only in the US is the pandemic seen as primarily a party political issue as opposed the the rest of the world where it's seen as primarily a health care issue. Perhaps I should refine that and say only in the democracies, in Russia, China, and some others, politics plays a leading part, but not of the party sort.

    In fairness the advice on masks was altered in the light of experience.

    Eugene
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

  9. #17
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    One real issue with this entire thing is that we have a population conditioned to believe that the "experts" have the answers and as long as we follow the recommendations of the "experts", everything will be okay.

    But what we learn time and time again (if we are paying attention) is that in many situations, there is too much that is unknown. There is no unchallengeable science. Sometimes, even the best educated, most experienced and highly revered scientist, doctor, climatologist, or whatever just CAN'T KNOW many things. Truth be told, they are guessing. They are making the best educated guesses they can, but in the end, they are just guessing. And mostly, those guesses aren't 100% correct. Often, they are horrifically wrong. So you see the models constantly revised because they are grossly inaccurate. You see the CDC continually change the guidance based on new information. The scientists and doctors are learning more about it each day and providing as much information and guidance as possible. And then the politicians take the incomplete information and guidance and guesses and filter it through the lens of their political agenda. They make decisions based on this concoction and then the news media "reports" on it, filtered through another lens of political agenda and tailored in a way that hopefully generates ratings and clicks (and by extension, advertising revenue). This final product is what most of the public consumes and mistakes for information or even truth.

    So the point of all this is that most of us believe four lies:

    1. Scientists know exactly what is happening and what should be done.
    2. Politicians are making decisions purely in the best interest of their constituents
    3. The news media is reporting the facts so that the public is informed
    4. There is a "right" way to deal with this situation and it should be evident to those who make the decisions. If they make different decisions than what our own personal version of "right", it is because they are evil and should be punished.
    Matt McKenzie

    "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." Henry Ford

  10. #18
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    IMO-nothing more,
    America was built be FREE men taking RISKS!
    Some where HUGE RISKS!

    I encourage everyone to do what they think is best for them.
    I will do the same.

    Colonel Blimp, MM excellent posts IMO.


    An aside, I rode the Indian about 250 miles yesterday.
    Observation: People are out and about like I've NEVER seen around these parts!

    P.S. Colonel Blimp Sir, my middle name is Eugene!
    Last edited by road kill; 05-25-2020 at 07:52 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

    So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory, the MOMENT." ~ Aldo Leopold

  11. #19
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    The science of psychology has changed since the 60s. The Dr. Spock model is dead. A common thing is to see people who read about Freud, Jung and Skinner in Physchology 101 take the liberty to have influence over peoples lives in the name of education when they know nothing. Granted, I don’t know what people learn in college currently.

    In regards to religious beliefs, I think some of the theories of how practices involving grieving and death evolved in prehistory is interesting. I think that anyone that is trying to understand the world that discounts bias and emotion does so at their own peril.

    I think the idea that we can get immununity from shead virus particles that are not infectious is interesting. I like the idea that plagues have come and gone throughout life’s history on it’s own accord. It comes and it goes. There are mechanics to it that we do not understand. The smartest man that ever lived named Socrates knew that.

    Bill Gates is quoted as saying that a pitfall of the intelligent is thinking that what they know applies to more than it should. That is a guy who threw his intellect and billions of dollars into preventing the issue and I still don’t value his opinion based on his own words.

  12. #20
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    Who the hell still believes what comes out of Washington. I put more trust in people working on the front lines than any politician. And as far as history is concerned,well these tactics are nothing new and they are in your face and a very high percentage of people can't see it. My sig line is there for a reason. You can follow the money if you like and come up with about the same conclusion

    Pete
    The eye can not see what the mind does not know

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