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Thread: Best Amish dog training program

  1. #101
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redgolden View Post
    I confirm you that this wasn't what I ment. This integrity I called was just about myself : being in integrity with what I think, what I say and what I do made me choose to work with no ecollar. This same term can be used by anyone (on any basis) where thoughts, speaches and actions head the same direction. If someone's thougts (or beliefs), speach and actions are in the same direction, this is called intergrity. In no way I ment any accusations...
    RG

    With all due respect, I think you are milking this language barrier issue somewhat. You were very agressive in your post in which you claimed that someone had "crapped" on you. As someone who knows his language skills are deficient, would it not behoove you to think twice before posting?

    You continue to misuse the word "integrity"

    I suggest you consult the dictionary

    in⋅teg⋅ri⋅ty

      /ɪnˈtɛgti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-teg-ri-tee] Show IPA

    –noun 1.adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.




    I believe you are confusing "integrity" with "integration"


    in⋅te⋅gra⋅tion  /ˌɪntɪˈgreɪʃən/ [in-ti-grey-shuhn]
    –noun 1.an act or instance of combining into an integral whole.2.an act or instance of integrating a racial, religious, or ethnic group.




    There is a world of difference between the two.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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  3. #102
    Senior Member Redgolden's Avatar
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    Ted,

    I will not argue with you anymore. So let's end this in due respect. We are in a free world, so you are free to think what you're saying.

    Regards
    Djanick Michaud
    Zomarick Golden Retrievers
    www.redgolden.com

    "Believing that our vision of the reality is the only reality that exsits is the most dangerous illusion" (Watzlawick)

  4. #103
    Senior Member Redgolden's Avatar
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    From Wikipedia

    Integrity as a concept has to do with perceived consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome. People use integrity as a holistic concept, judging the integrity of systems in terms of those systems' ability to achieve their own goals (if any). A value system's abstraction depth and range of applicable interaction may also function as significant factors in identifying integrity due to their congruence or lack of congruence with empirical observation.[citation needed] A value system may evolve over time while retaining integrity if those who espouse the values account for and resolve inconsistencies.

    Some people[1] see integrity as the quality of having a sense of honesty and truthfulness in regard to the motivations for one's actions. Some people[who?] use the term "hypocrisy" in contrast to integrity[citation needed] for asserting that one part of a value system demonstrably conflicts with another, and to demand that the parties holding apparently conflicting values account for the discrepancy or change their beliefs to improve internal consistency (seen as a virtue).

    The etymology of the word "integrity" can suggest insight into its use and meaning. It stems from the Latin adjective integer (whole, complete).[2] In this context, integrity may comprise the personal inner sense of "wholeness" deriving from (say) honesty and consistency of character. As such, one may judge that others "have integrity" to the extent that one judges whether they behave according to the values, beliefs and principles they claim to hold.
    Djanick Michaud
    Zomarick Golden Retrievers
    www.redgolden.com

    "Believing that our vision of the reality is the only reality that exsits is the most dangerous illusion" (Watzlawick)

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  6. #104
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redgolden View Post
    Ted,

    I will not argue with you anymore. So let's end this in due respect. We are in a free world, so you are free to think what you're saying.

    Regards

    It seems as though just as you are unable to follow your catch phrase - that you are unable to follow your own words.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
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  7. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixidawg View Post
    Don't wait for snow to melt! Use snowbanks as obstacles and teach them the concepts on snow. I used plowed parking lots and had them go up and over snow banks at varying angles to teach them to hold a line through an obstacle.
    Great idea! I actually train in plowed parking lot all the time. I should start using the snowbanks to my advantage. Thanks

  8. #106
    Senior Member kdeckels's Avatar
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    Has anyone read Positive Gun Dogs by Jim Barry, Mary Emmen and Susan Smith it says it is the the first book on positive methods for sporting dogs published in the United States.

    I purchased it as an it utilizes some drills that are fairly common.

  9. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    Don't know what you got until to run a hunt test or field trial. Of all the books on the market Farmer, Smartworks, Rorem, Lardy you settle for British training?? Oh yeah my favorite is Retriever on line. Colloar or no collar these are worth reading. And there are more.
    You may be right about not knowing what you got. I finally had a chance to train with some great NAHRA folks last spring as usally train alone. My dog was dropping the birds left and right! It was pretty bad. I think we got that sorted out now.

    Why British? - I'm new to hunting and retriever training. So when thinking about a non-ecollar approach, I thought it would be useful to start with trainers who use that approach. Now that I understand a little more about retriever training; Your right! Drills and concepts from a e-collar program would have more meaning to me. I've been thinking about Smartworks because Mr. Graham post here sometimes and might be available to answer questions. We'll see!

    Please don't think I'm against e-collar training methods and FF. I have FF dogs in the past and one my dogs is ecollar conditioned. But when you put pressure on a dog it's really hard to take it back. So being new to this type of training, combined with training a breed that hasn't been used for hunting, hunt tests, trials, for 100 years; I think I'll go slowly and tread lightly. I can always use my e-collar if needed.

  10. #108
    Senior Member Redgolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdeckels View Post
    Has anyone read Positive Gun Dogs by Jim Barry, Mary Emmen and Susan Smith it says it is the the first book on positive methods for sporting dogs published in the United States.

    I purchased it as an it utilizes some drills that are fairly common.
    I read a resume of their book not long ago and ordered it (should receive it sometime in January). I look forward to read it ! Any other one you know that is in the same range ?

    It seems to follow the same principles as most of clicker trainings which I read a long time ago (one was written in France and talked about clicker training for pointing dogs and another one talking about clicker training in obedience). Unfortunately, in French, there are not many books about training retrievers. In Quebec Province, a woman wrote one a long time ago and in not edited anymore (I sometime screen if I can find a used copy of that book).
    Djanick Michaud
    Zomarick Golden Retrievers
    www.redgolden.com

    "Believing that our vision of the reality is the only reality that exsits is the most dangerous illusion" (Watzlawick)

  11. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redgolden View Post
    Yep, there are ways to get there with low force. Like anything else, there are different things for different tastes ! In the past 10 years, we'v worked our dogs with those type of methods and it works.

    First, having a solid obediece for a start makes things easier when we get on more advanced field work. The dogs learn to stay "in contact" with us. During that period, we build up also the communication concept with the tone of voice (as I explained previously).

    Second, when moving to those advanced drills to build retrievers, we use the drills proposed in Carol Cassity book but not to begin with. We take each drill, make them simpler (simplifying the concepts to teach to the dogs) and then build up the drill to get to the final result. That "decomposition" of each drill allows any corrections to be done from the start (distances are short, low cover, etc.) and builds up the dogs confidence.

    We do all the same with the blind concept. wistle stop (building thru walking at heel making a stop wistle and hve the dog sit, also in obedience in the "sit" teaching, then on call back at short distance and add distance gradually), wagon wheel, scale, line to the pile, hot short blinds getting longer and longer, baseball field for teaching directions, "T" and double "T" drills. We work with as many different "components" as possible before putting all together and when putted together,there again we take all back to the basics and build up.

    Have a great time with you st. poodle and please post about the progress !!! (And a couple of pictures... I have seen one st. poodle at work in Quebec province and they are beauties to see !!!).
    I agree! Staying "in contact" and using your tone of voice is very important. I've been going back to basic obedience to help improve focus and handling at a distance. Thanks for the info. I'll have to add the Carol Cassity book to the list of books on drills.

  12. #110
    Senior Member Peake's Avatar
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    Chris,
    LOL, do you ever regret tagging non-electric methods with such a "fun" nothing deep term as "Amish" so many years ago?? I can't believe I'm saying this but the novelty of the "A" word is finally wearing off even for me.
    Peake
    ________
    No2 Vapir
    Last edited by Peake; 03-25-2011 at 05:50 PM.

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