Smartwork CC Question
The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Wildear
Retriever Coach
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Smartwork CC Question

  1. #1
    Member Flying Dutchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hamilton, MI
    Posts
    94

    Default Smartwork CC Question

    Okay, let me start by saying I am following the Smartwork program...really, I am...I promise! The problem is, I got a little ahead of myself and collar conditioned my dog to here, sit, and then heel right after formal obedience and before force fetch. I guess having read the book(s) through three to four times each wasn't enough and I got ahead of myself. I also kind of thought that doing CC prior to FF would let me transition more smoothly out of FF and into Force to Pile work without having to "stop" to CC.

    So now, here I am coming out of FF, Stick Fetch, and Walking Fetch and approaching where Evan says to go into CC. Of course, in the Smartwork program, this means CC to Sit, Heel, etc. and then moving back into the CC to fetch part. My hesitation is this:

    In the first time through CC, we had quite a battle over CC to sit. I got a lot of bugging that picking up the pace, jogging for a while, even throwing a few fun bumpers wouldn't fix. He'd get moving along, but as soon as it looked like I might nick again, he would lock up those front legs and become a rock to be dragged! Now, we got through it, but he seems still to be a "cautious" dog. Not soft or afraid, but he doesn't like to be pressured and if he feels like he can't win, he's got a strong enough will to fight it.

    So, finally, here's my question. As I begin to CC to Fetch, would you go back and CC to sit, heel, (maybe even here), as the book says and then work into Fetch or would you check those off as done (albeit out of order...), and begin immediately with CC to Fetch? I feel like coming out of ear pinch, stick fetch, and walking fetch, he has enough exposure to turning off pressure that it won't freak him out to be nicked to retrieve if I go slow and increase pressure very gradually, but I don't want to skip steps and have to go back and fill holes later, either. Additionally, I feel like we really have some nice momentum in our training right now, and I don't want to lose that in a senseless battle over CC to Sit, if that isn't necessary.

    Thoughts and opinions are all appreciated! FWIW, we are running Started tests the next three weekends and this training will be taking place in between, if that makes any difference in your suggestions.

    Chad
    Last edited by Flying Dutchman; 04-24-2011 at 10:30 PM.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    RetrieverTraining.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    north east mo
    Posts
    1,876

    Default

    I'm still working with my first competitive lab and I have smartfecth. I ran into a lot of the same problems in this area of training. I was a a loss of what to do. I went as a spectator to my first ft a couple weeks ago and upon talking to a man he advised me to look at Mike lardys program. When I did I had to back track a couple weeks of training but it was well worth it. His concepts seemed to be more flowing to the dog than the others. I can see a light at the end of the tunnel with his program as to where the others seemed to lead more into the next book to buy

  4. #3
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    north east mo
    Posts
    1,876

    Default

    I heard a lot of ( lardy is to advanced for a newbie to understand ) wrong! !! I get it better and I'm from a State that is up wind from Arkansas. Lol

  5. Remove Advertisements
    RetrieverTraining.net
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Senior Member 43x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    WY
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman View Post
    Okay, let me start by saying I am following the Smartwork program...really, I am...I promise! The problem is, I got a little ahead of myself and collar conditioned my dog to here, sit, and then heel right after formal obedience and before force fetch. I guess having read the book(s) through three to four times each wasn't enough and I got ahead of myself. I also kind of thought that doing CC prior to FF would let me transition more smoothly out of FF and into Force to Pile work without having to "stop" to CC.

    So now, here I am coming out of FF, Stick Fetch, and Walking Fetch and approaching where Evan says to go into CC. Of course, in the Smartwork program, this means CC to Sit, Heel, etc. and then moving back into the CC to fetch part. My hesitation is this:

    In the first time through CC, we had quite a battle over CC to sit. I got a lot of bugging that picking up the pace, jogging for a while, even throwing a few fun bumpers wouldn't fix. He'd get moving along, but as soon as it looked like I might nick again, he would lock up those front legs and become a rock to be dragged! Now, we got through it, but he seems still to be a "cautious" dog. Not soft or afraid, but he doesn't like to be pressured and if he feels like he can't win, he's got a strong enough will to fight it.

    So, finally, here's my question. As I begin to CC to Fetch, would you go back and CC to sit, heel, (maybe even here), as the book says and then work into Fetch or would you check those off as done (albeit out of order...), and begin immediately with CC to Fetch? I feel like coming out of ear pinch, stick fetch, and walking fetch, he has enough exposure to turning off pressure that it won't freak him out to be nicked to retrieve if I go slow and increase pressure very gradually, but I don't want to skip steps and have to go back and fill holes later, either. Additionally, I feel like we really have some nice momentum in our training right now, and I don't want to lose that in a senseless battle over CC to Sit, if that isn't necessary.

    Thoughts and opinions are all appreciated! FWIW, we are running Started tests the next three weekends and this training will be taking place in between, if that makes any difference in your suggestions.

    Chad
    I'd go back and plug all the holes before I moved on. I'd review formal obedience, and move to the next step wants the dog is pretty solid
    I'm sure Evan will see this and get ya going in the right direction
    Good Luck
    Last edited by 43x; 04-24-2011 at 11:03 PM.

  7. #5
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman View Post
    Okay, let me start by saying I am following the Smartwork program...really, I am...I promise! The problem is, I got a little ahead of myself and collar conditioned my dog to here, sit, and then heel right after formal obedience and before force fetch.
    Those statements seem to be at odds, don't they? On page 29 is a flow chart for development that should guide you through each stage so you don't get ahead of the dog. But it should not set you back to have CC'd. It's a matter of preference, and of reading the dog. From the reactions you got it sounds like you may have gotten ahead of the dog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman View Post
    So now, here I am coming out of FF, Stick Fetch, and Walking Fetch and approaching where Evan says to go into CC. Of course, in the Smartwork program, this means CC to Sit, Heel, etc. and then moving back into the CC to fetch part....So, finally, here's my question. As I begin to CC to Fetch, would you go back and CC to sit, heel, (maybe even here), as the book says and then work into Fetch or would you check those off as done (albeit out of order...), and begin immediately with CC to Fetch?

    Chad
    From this point you would CC to "Fetch". The text does not say to CC to all commands together at this point. The Smartwork program moves sequentially, and e-collar conditioning is done to specific commands as you move the dog through Basics. It's not an all encompassing event, but rather an ongoing sequence of pressure conditioniong techniques, as the book lays it out.

    If you've done it already, why go back and do it again? Unless you see holes in how it was done the first time, just CC to fetch.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  8. #6
    Member Flying Dutchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hamilton, MI
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Thanks, Evan. That makes sense. I did realize that CC to "Here" for example is part of the program that comes before the rest. I guess I misread the section of SmartFetch that talks about CC to fetch. I thought it suggested starting with CC to Sit, then Heel, then Fetch. I have a very solid sit, heel, and here response at the present time, probably because of the collar work we did on those commands before. I don't feel like there are holes in that part of his training, but the thought that I am afraid we'd run into a setback makes me wonder if maybe I should be more concerned than I am.

    I will progress to CC to Fetch next, then, and continue forward.

    Thanks for the responses, all!

    Chad

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •