RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Quals, Derbies, etc.

6K views 34 replies 18 participants last post by  NurseTank 
#1 ·
Can someone point me in the direction of a resource to teach me the difference in a qual, derby, hunt test, field trial, nationals, etc.? I’ve looked around on the “GOT” and didn’t find definitions for the different events. I’m seeing stuff like QAA, I understand it means “qualified all age”, but what does that denote. I apologize for such a tedious question, so a resource that I can read would be great. I’m guessing it’ll take some time to explain.
 
#2 ·
In the beginning God created field trials, and it was good. After a bit the owners of the dogs and estates wanted to run the dogs themselves instead of having their groomsmen and do it for them. And so, the amateur stakes of the field trials began. You would have the open or anyone could run. Professional retriever trainer or owner. You would have the amateur where as it sounds the non professional dog trainer and owner of the dog could compete against others of their ilk. Some opens we're not actually opens but limited or specials. So to get into those the qualifying stake was created. Wins in placements in the qualifying stake could make a dog qaa. And eligible to run in these restricted opens. And derbies are free young dogs under 2 years old. Field trials are all dog against dog a winner is selected. Then back in 1982/1983. Some folks thought of a new game based on the old game but instead of dog competing against dog it would be dog competing against a written standard. It was set up so the everyday folks the duck hunters who are already coming to field trials to work at them and help put them on would have a place to have fun with their dogs. To evaluate them against the standard producer registry of good hunting dogs. This was the formation of the hunt test. A group called the North American hunting retriever association teamed up with the AKC for one summer and put on field tests. The very next summer the AKC split and started its own game at the same time a group also left and went to another registry the UKC and the HRC hunt test game was formed. All of these groups have grands or invitationals that people at the top level qualify for and go to. and The originals the field trials have the national and national amateur. and when all is done and said it's all just dogs picking up stuff, or not.😎
 
#3 ·
In the beginning God created field trials, and it was good. After a bit the owners of the dogs and estates wanted to run the dogs themselves instead of having their groomsmen and do it for them. And so, the amateur stakes of the field trials began. You would have the open or anyone could run. Professional retriever trainer or owner. You would have the amateur where as it sounds the non professional dog trainer and owner of the dog could compete against others of their ilk. Some opens we're not actually opens but limited or specials. So to get into those the qualifying stake was created. Wins in placements in the qualifying stake could make a dog qaa. And eligible to run in these restricted opens. And derbies are free young dogs under 2 years old. Field trials are all dog against dog a winner is selected. Then back in 1982/1983. Some folks thought of a new game based on the old game but instead of dog competing against dog it would be dog competing against a written standard. It was set up so the everyday folks the duck hunters who are already coming to field trials to work at them and help put them on would have a place to have fun with their dogs. To evaluate them against the standard producer registry of good hunting dogs. This was the formation of the hunt test. A group called the North American hunting retriever association teamed up with the AKC for one summer and put on field tests. The very next summer the AKC split and started its own game at the same time a group also left and went to another registry the UKC and the HRC hunt test game was formed. All of these groups have grands or invitationals that people at the top level qualify for and go to. and The originals the field trials have the national and national amateur. and when all is done and said it's all just dogs picking up stuff, or not.��
Well said, Ken
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
That helps a great deal. Mr. Ken, if I may get your take or anyone else’s...
Is one or the other best to start with for a novice trainer/handler? I’m Picking up a pup in a few weeks and getting going, but I’ll have a pro trainer after the first few months. I’d like to get good enough to train a dog completely at some point. I am fired up about the possibility of competing in different venues, but I’m curious if one is better for the novice over the other.
 
#8 ·
Many feel the best start is to find the retriever club closest to you and if not join at least go to and observe some of the events they are putting on be thay field trials field tests or hunts tests. Find in this group of people smaller groups to play fetch with. With the club and the circle of friends you will make you may or may not choose to start in whatever events they are hosting. Often these clubs will have a fun event not even licensed like a gun dog stake. These are great for getting your feet wet. But use caution this is addictive. You're going to be driving down the road looking at the scenery and instead of thinking what a nice field you will be thinking who owns that can I get permission to run dogs? your clutter is about to increase like you never thought possible.
 
#9 ·
Most people new to the retriever game start with hunt tests (AKC, HRC, NAHRA). Some want to go beyond the Master level, and cross over to qualified all-age field trials. For those who are susceptible, the addiction takes hold and they go as far as their dog and money/time will take them.

Meredith
 
#12 ·
Hunt Tests - these are events that have judges and each dog is judged to a pass or fail standard. There are very specific rules for each test that can be found in a rule book but I don’t think that is what you are looking for yet.

You have AKC hunt test and UKC/HRC hunt tests. For this discussion, both Of these are very similar.

You have different levels of hunt tests. In AKC a dog can earn a Junior Hunter Title, a Senior Hunter Title and Master Hunter title. Each title comes with more “advanced” training. As you can imagine the tests get more difficult at each level. HRC has a similar setup and their tests are called Started, Seasoned and Finished.

To earn a title the dog has to earn a “pass” or a “qualifying score” in a certain number of tests at each level.

There is a also an annual AKC event called the Master National and HRC has a bi-annual event called the International Grand. If the dog passes The Grand twice, it can earn the Grand Hunting Retriever Champion title.

Field Trials have derby stakes, Qualifying Stakes , Open Stakes and Amateur stakes. There are some variations of these events but I won’t get into that now. Field Trials are competitions where you are competing against each dog in the field. There is no “pass/fail.” I

The derby is for dogs under 2 years of age. Dogs can earn “derby points” for earning a “placement” in a derby. There are normally placements for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. You can look up the point system in the rule book.

The Qualifying stake is the intro to Field Trials. A dog can earn the QAA title if the dog gets a 1st or 2nd in a Qualifying Stake.

The Amateur stake is a Field Trial stake and only an Amateur handler (a non-pro) can run the dog in that stake. A dog can earn enough pts to earn his Amateur Field Champion (AFC) title.

The Open stake can be run by pros and amateurs. If the dog accumulates enough points in the Open, the dog can earn his Field Champion (FC) title.
 
#13 ·
Goosers Cliff notes:

Field Trials: Open, Amature, Qualifying, Derbys, are ALL COMPETITIONS.. Dogs compete against each other to find the Winner, best dog, that day

Hunt tests: Dogs run against a written standard, Its pass or fail.. Dogs don't compete against each other..

All have rule books.. They do an OK job explaining things,,but you find out many things are subjective..

There is a LOT of passion involved in all venues..

There are colorful people too.. :)
 
#18 · (Edited)
#20 ·
QUALM

[kwäm, kwälm]





NOUN

qualms (plural noun)


The word that perfectly describes my thoughts at every one of these dog things.. :)



As soon as I hit send, I realized my mistake, but then I thought the same thing. Thanks for the insights everyone! It sounds like I have a lot to learn. I appreciate your input. Mr. Ken, I’m already feeling the addiction, and my clutter of hunt stuff and training stuff from my first retriever is ridiculous. I’m scared what testing and/or trialing will do to my garage.
As for the time and place for testing, I am looking to move back to my hometown from the city. I’ve been looking at property to do some work on and get it ready for training.
 
#19 ·
I've been trying to explain the difference between FT and HT to my husband for the last 8 yrs. He still gets them confused... let alone trying to break them down into their various levels. LOL

Best of luck Nurse Tank with your new venture. If you find yourself a training group and/or mentor, you will be much ahead of the curve.
 
#22 ·
You mentioned you were going to send the dog to a pro. If you already have a pro in mind then see what he/she trains for and runs, and go watch them run. Looking for local clubs and training groups is also a good idea and a great way to see a multitude of training styles.
 
#24 ·
Aside from the details of the difference between hunt test and field trials in the way they run and are judged, I believe that there is a significantly different mind set needed. I started in hunt tests many years ago just to get a JH title on my bitch. As you mentioned I got hooked. A couple other novices around me got together and with the advent of training materials, in my case the Lardy series, we took our dogs to the MH levels. At hunt tests I expected to pass as I trained to a higher standard, so the test was simple compared to our training. We were able to do this training 2-4 times a week all of us had a family and jobs.
When I hit field trials I had an epiphany, had to handle my dog on the last bird of the fourth series of a qual, it took us out of a very possible placement. As I was walking back to the truck I was frustrated, thinking this game is over my head, the need for grounds, technical water, etc. But then it hit me, as I walked pass a few very accomplished field trialers. Here I am competing and I train on public grounds, very part time, but I was right there. I realized that my mind set needed to be, similar when I ran 10ks in college. I not going to “win”, but can I do better than last time, someday when everything falls right we will get something. The next year that same dog placed in an Amateur, was the only dog in the last series to stay in the water all the way to the birds. The gallery applauded, and it was a good thing I was wearing sunglasses. There were people who won nationals in that crowd applauding my dog. We got 4th but that moment still gives me chills. That’s why I keep trying to get that feeling again. But still have the mindset of using the trial as a test of weaknesses we need to work on. But when you get a ribbon, for someone in my situation, it’s huge win.
 
#26 ·
The more I read on this thread the more fired up I’m getting!! I’CE spoken with the trainer, who is also the breeder, and he is going to allow me to work with him, while he trains my pup. I’m finding that trainers are typically happy to have the owners come by and train, I guess because it shows respect for their craft and not wanting to screw up their hard work. I learned with my first dog, that I got when he was 2 years old, that most of the problems we ran in to were my fault. I am still a novice but hoping to up my game significantly. I had the privilege of going to a training day here in Houston, I say privilege because they allowed me to join though I don’t yet have a dog, and they were ready to teach and give advice as well. I am ticked that I didn’t follow through with my first dog and actually enter the training arena that exists. I was content to have a dog that would pick up a bird for me. I’m finding that watching these other dogs that they enjoy the challenge as do the handlers.
I’M FIRED UP!!!
I appreciate the many comments and insights. I’m happy to keep this thread going, it may end up being something that will help other “newbs” to the world of retriever training.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top