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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am having some issues with how I am teaching 3 handed casting. I am going by Evan's casting dvd, but I am running into a unique problem. She does well if she is off the check cord, but does not do good (no-goes, comes to me, won't cast) on the check cord.

I called my trainer that had her for 5 months and he said that he had issues with the check cord with her also. So, he just taught her other ways without the cord.

I am thinking that it is not worth trudging through breaking her on the check cord if I don't need to. As I won't be using a check cord much longer.

So my issue is I need to be able to stop an incorrect cast she makes so that she is not rewarded for it. The best way I can think of to do that without a check cord is to teach whistle stop before casting.

What method would you employ to teach whistle stop without a check cord.

BTW, I am not meaning to answer my own question. If anyone thinks I need to do something else. Please respond with what I should do different.
 

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Now you know why I always say you can't teach dogs by watching a DVD. I don't use check cords that often. 3 handed casting hardly ever. Sitting to a whistle, hardly ever. Teach whistle sits on a leash at heel. Transition to distance. You already answered the question about casting.

/Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
my voice

I have seen this. Some do not work well with the rope. You see it a lot at a junior test with the dog on a rope on 2 legs. Take the rope off and it heels like a pro. Dogs:confused::confused:


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I think that she is one of those dogs. Pro said she just doesn't like being worked on the cord. And I am not sure if it is worth the time to break her of this because she is about done with the cord anyway. She is fine on walks, heeling, sitting on a cord. But, she is particularly hesitant to take a command that is away from me with a cord.

Will you expand on your voice? She will sit at a short distance away in normal family conditions. Do you try to send her and sit her with your voice or do you try to sit her coming in from a retrieve? Coming in seems easier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How did Walking Fetch and Force to Pile (9 bumper) go?
She was at a pro through FTP. But, she was very slow, 2 months, in forcing to the ground. After she got that she flew through Walking Fetch and FTP.

I was told by the pro that she has a lot of marking talent and that she has the ability to do whatever I want her to do. But, she is not as trainable as many dogs.
 

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Will she do other things she wants to do while on a check cord? Will she run through a field, chase a bumper, etc. with a check cord on? Play, eat dinner, sleep?

What did you do as a puppy to let her get used to a cord on her collar? Did you let her run around the house, yard, etc. dragging a cord? Did she ever get so accustomed to it that she ignored it?

JS
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Now you know why I always say you can't teach dogs by watching a DVD. I don't use check cords that often. 3 handed casting hardly ever. Sitting to a whistle, hardly ever. Teach whistle sits on a leash at heel. Transition to distance. You already answered the question about casting.

/Paul
Reading books, watching DVD's and asking questions on RTF are the best options I have. No doubt there is no substitute for experience. I try to go watch guys work dogs as much as I can.

I know you weren't attacking me. I agree that you can't pick up a book or DVD and be a dog trainer any better than you pick up a book about football and be able to play.

She does sit on the whistle at heel or front sit.
 

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She was at a pro through FTP. .
Thanks, the reason I asked was that in Smartworks, Evan uses a rope lead when doing walking fetch and FTP, so I thought if trained the way SW's does, then having a rope lead on should no longer be an issue after FTP. IMHO!

Good luck with your pup and have fun!
 

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I don't know this to be the case but it's funny that no one mentioned too much pressure. If she is on the sensitive side, too much pressure from the check cord can shut them down real quick. I've got a little girl like that. Extremely talented but sensitive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Will she do other things she wants to do while on a check cord? Will she run through a field, chase a bumper, etc. with a check cord on? Play, eat dinner, sleep?

What did you do as a puppy to let her get used to a cord on her collar? Did you let her run around the house, yard, etc. dragging a cord? Did she ever get so accustomed to it that she ignored it?

JS
The check cord has always been a problem for her. She is ok if the cord is not in her way. I can put her on leash and she is fine. She will retrieve a fun bumper with a cord but it noticeably bothers her. She runs around it and if she gets even the slightest tangle she stops, hops or fights it until it is free. (Basically on the way in)

Yes. I let her run around the house as a puppy with a leash. It was ok until it got in her way and she had problems then also.

She would never ignore it. It always bothered her.
 

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Thanks, the reason I asked was that in Smartworks, Evan uses a rope lead when doing walking fetch and FTP, so I thought if trained the way SW's does, then having a rope lead on should no longer be an issue after FTP. IMHO!

Good luck with your pup and have fun!
And you're correct. One of the reasons I start early using ski rope - even with pups to drag around at 12 weeks or so is to get them used to it with no negative association. Then taking them through the force fetch processes with a rope long before basic handling work begins further conditions them to it as a means of guiding behavior.

That takes me to the dog in question. It was asked earlier, but how did all the steps of FF go?

Evan
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
And you're correct. One of the reasons I start early using ski rope - even with pups to drag around at 12 weeks or so is to get them used to it with no negative association. Then taking them through the force fetch processes with a rope long before basic handling work begins further conditions them to it as a means of guiding behavior.

That takes me to the dog in question. It was asked earlier, but how did all the steps of FF go?

Evan
To the leash/cord question, she drug a 6' leash at 7 weeks old when I got her. She has never gotten used to it even today. If it is not in her way she is ok, but if it is it is a problem. I honestly didn't think about it being a problem so I tried to avoid it more than break her of it.

It took her a long time to go through force. Basically 2 months at a pro. She got to the foot, but would not transition to the ground. After he got her to the ground, she went through Walking Fetch and FTP with little problem. A leash, like on Walking Fetch, is not a problem as long as it is not in her way. Pulling on her is not a problem either. It is just if the cord gets in her way.

I proofed her on Force to the ground and she does well. I have done walking fetch and fetch no fetch with success. I have FTP with success. So I feel like she has been FF properly to the best of my ability to check. What she will not do is go on "back" if she does not know there is a bumper out there at a pile. So she will not go on a simple cold blind. But, I didn't think she was suppose to do that yet.?
 

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What she will not do is go on "back" if she does not know there is a bumper out there at a pile. So she will not go on a simple cold blind. But, I didn't think she was suppose to do that yet.?
well if she's just starting 3 handed casting then you're getting the cart ahead of the horse by worrying about simple cold blinds and such. don't worry, get through the work.
 

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It was unclear to me if you were following Smartworks or just had the one casting dvd.
Are you following Smartworks? Or do you just have the one dvd?

Evan has a free downloadable flow chart.

Look at it for your next steps. Above post is correct. You are getting ahead of yourself with cold blinds. Sounds like he is still in basics and not ready for transition yet. From what I read he hasn't done the last two steps in basics yet: T or TT and swimby.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It was unclear to me if you were following Smartworks or just had the one casting dvd.
Are you following Smartworks? Or do you just have the one dvd?

Evan has a free downloadable flow chart.

Look at it for your next steps. Above post is correct. You are getting ahead of yourself with cold blinds. Sounds like he is still in basics and not ready for transition yet. From what I read he hasn't done the last two steps in basics yet: T or TT and swimby.
I have the entire collection of Smarktwork by Evan. I purchased them while my pup was at a pro. I started Smartwork this month when I got my pup back and am using his flow chart and dvds. The problem is that I am kinda jumping into Evan's DVD's in the middle since she was at a pro for 5 months. She has had everything up to 3 handed Casting including cc so I am starting at 3 handed casting and going on.

Absolutely on the cold blinds. I am not trying to have her do cold blinds. I was trying to define that she does not do them and didn't think she was suppose to yet.

Yes. She is in basics. I still have to do 3 handed casting, basic handling, water force and swim-by. She has already been CC at the pro.
 

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The first thing I would suggest is to go through all the basic processes yourself, and check them out. I'm doubting your pro; I'm suggesting due diligence. Make sure things are in there the way you want them, and then progress step be step from where you believe your dog really is. We'll deal with the rope thing. But my suggestion is first things first.

Feel free to email me anytime to [email protected] if you have any aspect of this you need to have more detail about.

Evan
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
What I am hearing is that I must break her check cord phobia to progress. Is this correct? I will do that if that is what I need to do so that I don't have problems later on.

It would sure be nice to teach her whistle sit without a check cord so that I had an alternative method of correction that does not bother her.

BTW, I simplified this afternoon and did the following with no cord:
6 back casts from heel to pile
6 right backs from front sit to pile
6 left backs from front sit to pile
6 left overs from front sit to pile
6 right overs from front sit to pile

She was flawless. Did exactly what I asked.

We will do the same tomorrow with right back left over and left back right over.

Then, we will get back into the problem where she wants to go left over when I send her left back and right over when I send her right back. That is where I put the cord on her so that I could have some correction and she has problems with the cord.

Obviously, I will stop with the training sessions on 3 handed casting if I need to first break the cord phobia.
 
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