[huntingrdr]

Hey Guys,

OK, been working on 8 Handed Casting for about 5 days. Have finished angle backs, straight backs, and added in the overs a day ago. He gets confused on the overs and angle backs. Should I remove them all except the overs and work with him on those again? Also, when do you guys add in the come in overs and the straight come in? Does he have to be nailing it everytime before you would add more? Also how do you teach the straight come in bumper? Toss it straight down at your feet and blow a come in whistle with no cast? How long does 8 H-C normally take your dog to complete?

Thanks Robert

 

[Trevor Toberny]

I would think if your dog is not doing overs very well then you need to stop with angle backs and get overs solid. then simplify the angles back.

 

[huntingrdr]

He does overs great when there are no angle backs.

 

[KEukaFlyer]

I'm no pro but I had the same problem when I started. I don't know if there is a faster way but it took quite a while to really get it down. I find I go back to the 8 handed casting drill quite a bit to keep him sharp.

I basically used trial and error with NO nicking or collar pressure...it is a teaching thing.

I set it up like a pattern and ran it on the same field until he got the idea. If he went to the wrong one, I either handled him to it using an over or a back and then reset it and ran it again until he got it. You can also take out the over and back bumper but I thought it was helpful he could see which ones were the wrong ones as opposed to the one he should be going for.

Once he got the hang of it I started changing the field, then started changing the point of origin, etc.

If he has trouble, he is more likely confused than disobeying...be careful with an ecollar.

 

[Angie B]

Robert,

First put out your 3 piles like "3 hand cast". Your going to teach one half of the 8 hand cast first. Once the dog does those correctly, pick up those piles and teach the 2 angle backs. When those are going well put back the overs and the back pile. Now start casting to all those piles. Use a long rope. Once those are going well, step out of the circle and teach the two angle in casts and the straigt come in cast.

Angie

 

[huntingrdr]

OK, thanks alot! Makes more sense now. On the straight come in cast, do I just step outside the circle drop a bumper at my feet and blow the come in whistle?

 

[Brad B]

Robert, I set mine up just like any other pile. I would at your point probably have my angle in piles out, my back pile and overs and angle baks in place. Then get the dog, set him in the middle and go to work.

When having trouble getting a cast to the angle backs, I would set them in closer slightly than the back and over piles. So "he" would be more likely to encounter or see them as he turned before he saw the overs or back pile. This is probably over simplification but for a pressure sensitive dog I think it would help coupled with attrition and a check cord.

And I think it helps to have a set location for this too. I use the same soccer field each time for this drill. Still use it as a "pick me up" tune up drill sometimes if I don't have time to go somewhere or weather is bad.

 

[Mark Littlejohn]

The come-in bumber is simply somewhere between you and the dog...

I found angle backs to be easier to explain to the dog using two things:

1. Bumbers up on a slight rise or hill, easily visible so as soon as the dog turns around, they're there.

2. Something directly behind the dog so that he has to go to one side or the other. Could be trees, a car, a pile of limbs, whatever's there.

Good luck.

 

[KNorman]

Hold on a second.....

Didn't you just finish swim-by???

If you did, I would recommend you take a few days off and let the dog recover then go into either pattern blinds or easy water blinds.

Get that blind momentum going before you get into complex casts.

JMO,

CS

PS, Robert, I also posted this same response on Waterdog....

 

[Angie B]

Hold on a second.....

Didn't you just finish swim-by???

If you did, I would recommend you take a few days off and let the dog recover then go into either pattern blinds or easy water blinds.

Get that blind momentum going before you get into complex casts.

JMO,

CS

PS, Robert, I also posted this same response on Waterdog....

Cat,

This drill has lots of momentum because the piles are close. Matter of fact I throw this drill in along with wagon wheel while I'm doing other yard work. I haven't had a dog yet have problem with it by doing it this way... But I don't use any pressure with it either.

Angie

 

[Angie B]

OK, thanks alot! Makes more sense now. On the straight come in cast, do I just step outside the circle drop a bumper at my feet and blow the come in whistle?

The bumper is about a couple yards in front of me. I bend at the waist and use a "toot-toot" come in whistle.

Angie

 

[huntingrdr]

Thanks guys, I will try it again today. I use the same field every day too.

Robert

 

[KNorman]

Everyone has their own preference(s).

I would chain patterns after 3 HC and build blind momentum. In my mind, you have to at least say "no" (even gently) when the dog goes to the wrong pile which can be a momentum killer.

Angie has lots of experience with dogs and I know she's successful, but I would prefer to keep the "no's" at a minimum until casting and blind running skills are firmly entrenched.

We must agree to disagree.

JMO....I think we're arriving at the same destination by different paths

 

[Angie B]

Too True CS!!!!

Angie

 

[huntingrdr]

I will give it a try tonight, and let yall know how it goes. Thanks for the help.

Robert

 

[Mark Littlejohn]

BTW Robert: Just as I should be working right now, when do you go to school :?:

 

[huntingrdr]

I just got home from school. Go from 8 am to 2:40. Usually get home about 3. Why were you asking?

 

[huntingrdr]

I just got in from doing some more 8 HC. Seems to finally understand the concept, I will go back out again tonight and do it again. If he does good I will add in the come in overs tomorrow.

 

[huntingrdr]

WOW!!! Angie thanks for the help, you sure do know what you are talking about. This afternoon did what you said and retuaght them. Went out this evening and he aced the drill!!! I appreciate yalls help. Now tomorrow I plan on adding in the come in overs. To do so, should I pick up everything except the new come in overs, teach them, then replace everything and run it as a whole? Also do you go ahead and add in the straight come in with the come in overs or wait till he is doing good on the come in overs then add the straight come in?

Thanks