RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Of those of you who have had a pup with an ACL tear, how many have had a re-occurence on the opposit

  • No re-occurence, Surgery less than 24 months ago

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Re-occurence less than 24 months after surgery

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Re-occurence more than 24 months after surgery

    Votes: 0 0.0%
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just had the TPLO procedure done to my 4 1/2 old YLM. Some of the info I read indicates an increased likelyhood of a re-occurence on the opposite leg. I'm trying to get some data to figure out the chances of that. Thanks for any replys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Bill A. said:
Just had the TPLO procedure done to my 4 1/2 old YLM. Some of the info I read indicates an increased likelyhood of a re-occurence on the opposite leg. I'm trying to get some data to figure out the chances of that. Thanks for any replys.
dogs with cranial cruciate ligament rupture have a 40% to 50% probability of rupturing the ligament in the opposite limb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
it only makes sense that there would be a higher likelihood in an injury to the other side. Think about it in human terms, someone with a knee injury is more likely to injure their opposite knee because of overcompensation as a result of the injury. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
BamaK9 said:
it only makes sense that there would be a higher likelihood in an injury to the other side. Think about it in human terms, someone with a knee injury is more likely to injure their opposite knee because of overcompensation as a result of the injury. :wink:
in dogs it is more likely genetic predisposition rather than overcompensation
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You're a ray of sunshine Ed :cry:

Seriously though, I read the figures on re-occurence but what makes me curious is that it is most often found (from what I read) in overweight dogs that are de-conditioned. It also occurs in performance/sporting dogs. My guess is that the 40 to 50 % figure is including the de-condtioned dogs and I'm hoping to get different results from this site where I suspect the dogs are in generally better shape. I'm crossing my fingers 'cause I'm hoping not to go through this again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Seems I could only vote once in the poll. I unfortunately have had 2 dogs blow an ACL, one at 8 months old and the other at 8 years old. Neither one of them had a problem with the other leg
Carole
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Bill A. said:
Seriously though, I read the figures on re-occurence but what makes me curious is that it is most often found (from what I read) in overweight dogs that are de-conditioned. It also occurs in performance/sporting dogs. My guess is that the 40 to 50 % figure is including the de-condtioned dogs and I'm hoping to get different results from this site where I suspect the dogs are in generally better shape. I'm crossing my fingers 'cause I'm hoping not to go through this again.
Your information is correct, cranial cruciate ligament ruptures occur in athletic dogs and obese sedentary dogs and the statistics for recurrence on the opposite limb do not differentiate between the two.

My experience both personally and professionally suggests that the athletic dog might be closer to 30% to 40 %, I have personally had 5 different dogs with ACL tears, 2 dogs eventually tore the other side and one died at 6 1/2, but his tear was a very unusual circumstance which may not have involved genetic predisposition. Neverthless dogs with ruptured cranial cruciate ligaments regardless of conditioning have a fairly high incidence of rupture in the opposite limb.

if it will make your day better just think that you have a 60% chance of NOT having the same injury in the opposite limb 8)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Ed said:
BamaK9 said:
it only makes sense that there would be a higher likelihood in an injury to the other side. Think about it in human terms, someone with a knee injury is more likely to injure their opposite knee because of overcompensation as a result of the injury. :wink:
in dogs it is more likely genetic predisposition rather than overcompensation
Doc Ed,
It's the same in human athletes, that is, an anatomical variant that may increase one's risk of a particular type of injury. In humans it has been suggested that a narrow intra-condylar notch, increase 'Q"angles, as well as hormonal flucuation may be risk factors (most in females). Whether the same holds true for dogs.....don't know. However, in humans, a re-tear of a properly reconstructed knee is much less likely than an injury to the other knee. There are multiple factors at work in the dog injuries, including fitness, weight, conditioning, age, terrain, etc. for the casual reader to assume it is a direct genetic trait....and I don't think that is what you were inferring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Steve Bean said:
including fitness, weight, conditioning, age, terrain, etc. for the casual reader to assume it is a direct genetic trait....and I don't think that is what you were inferring.
didn't say a direct genetic link but rather a genetic predisposition such as a narrow intracondylar notch, but in dogs the most common anatomical abnormality is a sloped tibial plateau

some tears may be secondary to a synovitis (joint inflammation) which weakens the ACL and makes it more susceptible to rupture
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Doc, I appreciate your replies and since your brought up inflamations, what are your thoughts on beginning (and continuing) a supplement, something like Glucosamine or Chondroitin? This is something I haven't researched much and I was going to ask my surgeon when we go for our 30 post-op vist but I'd like your thoughts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Bill A......

I put less than 24 months reoccurance, but it was nearly exactly on the 24 month mark. Both my dogs got a tad overweight one winter and Aggie blew the first knee out in early spring training. Slimmed her down, got back to training for awhile, then she had a bout with pyometria, got over that and the following spring, fully conditioned, slimmed down and in great shape, she blew out the other knee. As the nearest place to do TPLO was1000 miles away, we did the standard filament repair. God, the vets love this dog. :shock:

Ed.... Great info, thanks....are intercondylar notch and sloped tibial plateau visible on radiographs? Might as well have some other test we can do... :roll:

Ted
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,025 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Ted Hilfiker said:
Ed.... Great info, thanks....are intercondylar notch and sloped tibial plateau visible on radiographs? Might as well have some other test we can do... :roll:
the slope of the tibial plateau is visible and measurable, the slope angle is the measurement the surgeons use to determine how much to correct the tibial plateau in the TPLO procedure

the intracondylar notch is visible but no standard of measurement nor any positive link to cranial cruciate ligament ruptures in dogs, only theory......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Bill A. said:
Doc, I appreciate your replies and since your brought up inflamations, what are your thoughts on beginning (and continuing) a supplement, something like Glucosamine or Chondroitin?
glucosamine supplements may not always help but at worst they do no harm, I give my bitch who has torn both cruciates Cosequin daily and have done so for 2 or 3 years
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Breck, good info with the links. Still shows a less than perfect solution to a fairly common injury. Also debunks the "hope it's a partial tear" as they are still problamatic. Hopefully a better mouse-trap is in the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,887 Posts
Steve Bean said:
Also debunks the "hope it's a partial tear" .
a couple of "sayings" I use in practice regarding cruciate injuries, one plagerized from Dr. Don Hulse, a noted orthopedic surgeon in Texas

"rear limb lamenesses in adult dogs are considered to be cruciate injuries until proven otherwise" Don Hulse, DVM, MS, ACVS

"all partial tears eventually become complete tears, they do not heal to their preinjury state" Dr. Ed

and to this end dogs with partial tears should have surgery IMHO
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top