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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have recently bought a new pup that I am really excited about. I have been following Duck Dog Basics with my older dog with great results. My only question is that when I tried to socialize the pup with some other pups about his same age they played great until my pup started to get a little more aggressive with the other pups which in turned into a pup fight. I let it go for a sec thinking that they would quit, which I could tell after about 30-45 seconds that they weren't. This is the first lab pup that I have owned and I really want to be able to take him anywhere I go without worrying that he is gonna fight everything. Chris Akin really doesn't address this issue, but I think that I may be blowing this out of the water and over thinking it. How do I nip this in the butt now so it is not a problem later?
 

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I have recently bought a new pup that I am really excited about. I have been following Duck Dog Basics with my older dog with great results. My only question is that when I tried to socialize the pup with some other pups about his same age they played great until my pup started to get a little more aggressive with the other pups which in turned into a pup fight. I let it go for a sec thinking that they would quit, which I could tell after about 30-45 seconds that they weren't. This is the first lab pup that I have owned and I really want to be able to take him anywhere I go without worrying that he is gonna fight everything. Chris Akin really doesn't address this issue, but I think that I may be blowing this out of the water and over thinking it. How do I nip this in the butt now so it is not a problem later?
IMO you are not over thinking this.

Your pup sounds like a bully. Usually this is something that is sorted out with pups littermates before you get him. Was he the bully in his litter?

At this point YOU step in and stop it before he takes play to the next level and let the pup know in no uncertain terms that aggression with other dogs is not tolerated.

WAY easier to deal with this as a 9 week old than a 9 MONTH old or older.
 

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I agree with Linda, don't let him get to that point. If he looks like he's getting too rough, scruff him (you don't have to pick him up off the ground), separate him from the other puppy and do a "NO" that almost sounds like a growl at the same time. It teaches him it's not appropriate behavior and tells him "you" are the boss from an early age. Just a few seconds for him to settle down a little, then let him go back to playing. If he gets rough again, repeat and depending on how "bad" he was, maybe a "time out" is in store. Like Linda said, if you do it now, it's a LOT easier than when he's older. Basically what I described mimics what an older dog would do to an obnoxious puppy. I have an older female that's great about doing it when I have litters or a new pup, BUT an older dog can kill a puppy easily, so it's not just "go visit the neighbor's dog". It has to be one that's been around puppies a lot. Learning the "rules" is one of the good reasons for leaving a puppy with the litter until 7-8 weeks old as long as proper people socialization is also occurring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes he was the orgny, hyper, bully of the litter which is why I picked him. I used to raise pitbulls and when they got to that stage I would step in with the pups and get a lil rough with them but I know that a lab is way different than a bulldog. They were my dads bulldog pups that he was playing with so it may work out that I can teach both of the pups the ropes.
 

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What you describe is the reason pups usually get seperated at five or so weeks because they have instinctual pack mentality. Their behavior at that age with another pup us predictable, one is dominant one submissive and they don't flip a coin to decide. Don't let your pup play with other pups, unless you want a dog with a missing eye or sorts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So you are saying to not let my pup play with other pups? He is perfectly fine with the older dogs I just figured that it was because I took him to play where the bulldog pups lived and they were just deciding who was gonna be the boss. But I know a bulldogs mentality. So should I just not take him around the bulldogs?
 

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What you describe is the reason pups usually get seperated at five or so weeks because they have instinctual pack mentality. Their behavior at that age with another pup us predictable, one is dominant one submissive and they don't flip a coin to decide. Don't let your pup play with other pups, unless you want a dog with a missing eye or sorts.
Do I understand what you are saying here? Pups get seperated from each other at 5 weeks?? Don't let pups play with other pups period?

That is ludicrous if that is what you mean.

Not in my world they don't and not in any of the other breeders I know do they either!!

Pups learn bite inhibition and limitations from litter mates and their mothers up to the time they leave for their new homes.

I have seperated many a pup that is a bully while they are still with their littermates because the pup is not getting the message from the other pup to stop. Pups have to contiune to learn how to be dogs and how to get along with other dogs as pups once they have left their breeders.

OP , continue with supervised socializing/ play of your pup with other pups , bully breeds included, but the moment it seems to be going south YOU step in and let him know that the agressive behaviour is not O.K.

Bad Ass pups are not for the weak of heart nor for anyone with an "let them sort it out" attitude.
 

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What you describe is the reason pups usually get seperated at five or so weeks because they have instinctual pack mentality. Their behavior at that age with another pup us predictable, one is dominant one submissive and they don't flip a coin to decide. Don't let your pup play with other pups, unless you want a dog with a missing eye or sorts.
Puppies that get separated from each other (and their dam) too early are the ones that have the most issues. Which is why most breeders keep until at least 7 weeks, and some states have laws mandating the same. 5 weeks is way too young for a litter to be broken up. At 9 weeks, the OP's pup is typical and hardly anything to blow out of proportion, just monitor his play and teach appropriate behavior as has been suggested. Break up significant battles, teach pup appropriate responses to others, but normal wrestling and romps with other "safe" dogs and pups is important. Also important not to overdo it to the point pup isn't bonding with his human or interested in training sessions, but that's part of the balance of puppy raising. Keeping this type of pup away from other dogs at his critical stage of development will just make him worse, won't teach him anything about how to interact appropriately with other dogs. I have a 10 week old now, she's a bit of a hellion, she goes everywhere with me, training group, tests the last 2 weekends, learning not to jump, attack and bite everything and everyone that comes in reach of her little shark teeth. Also learning to be a good traveler and quiet while other dogs work. These first 4-5 months of a pup's development set the stage for the rest of its life.
 

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I'd try to expose him to as much as possible. As soon as the playing gets to rough, step in and take control. Grab him by the scruff and let him know your the boss. Sometimes I'll lay them on their side until they become submissive. Be careful around any older dogs. I've seen some pups get hurt from older dogs that won't put up with puppy play. Just keep him under control until he learns how to play right. No bullying allowed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks guys. I think that I will continue to take him with me as much as possible. I will just monitor his play and make sure that all the pups playing understand that I am quite a bit bigger than them and to behave.
 

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Your exactly right, mine are trial dogs and I want them happy to play with me and my birds not other puppies. I want them to socialize with human not dog. I was taught there is one puppy/ dog out of his crate at a time no exceptions. Huge distinction here, pets or trial dogs? There's a way to raise pets and a way to raise trial dogs. I have been around the best in this game and they all have the same policy so it's nothing I have dreamed up but do agree with it. Do I let my 2 dogs air together, yes. Do I let my puppies play with my older dogs yes, under my strict eye. Do I let 2-9 week old puppies play, absolutely not, what they will do is absolutely predictable. And further more do you want your pup to expel further his dominant or submissive traits?The OP didn't say wether he was talking about pets or competitive dogs so I gave my take.
Some of us consider our dogs both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Right now this pup is in the house learning how to socialize with my kids but he will soon be a outside dog as I have too many dogs in the house as it is. He will be a combination pet, hunt test, and hunting dog so he will always be around other dogs hence the reason that he absolutely has to have a good attitude with any dog or person. Thanks for the input.
 

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A couple of thoughts come up on this subject.

1. What you put up with, you end up with. Fixing it now is easier than fixing it later
2. Don't let a puppy do what you don't want your dog to do. Different version of the same thing. You are raising a dog, not a puppy.

In regards to separating the litter, we fall in the camp that sooner is better. This allows each dog to develop individually instead of their being one that pushes everybody else around and one that gets pushed around.

We begin separating our litters at around 6 weeks. We start with groups of 3-4 for a few hours during the day, then the groups get smaller, and the duration gets longer until they are totally on their own by 8 weeks. During this process, they are left with the mother at night for the first week.
 

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Do I let 2-9 week old puppies play, absolutely not, what they will do is absolutely predictable. And further more do you want your pup to expel further his dominant or submissive traits?
Big difference between 5 week old puppies and 9 week old puppies.
 
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I think that's great! That's the one advantage we have over our pros, we get to developed a bond. Our dogs are working with us not for us!
You totally missed her point. :rolleyes: I swear Chump, I don't know where you come up with some of the nonsense you post. When I see Jimmy and Jackie next I will ask if they think it is a good idea to separate puppies from each other at 5 weeks old.
 
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