Let me preface this by saying that I am not trying to start flame war but I am just curious about the amatuer stake at FT's. I run HT's and have only been to one FT just to watch. I talked to a few people there and tried to get the low down on the different stakes. It seemed to me that a lot of the amatuer dogs were on a pros truck or trained by a pro and the only thing that made them an amatuer was the handler. It that the way it is for most FT's? If so was that the original intent for the amature stake? Could a client of a pro with their dog on his truck follow him around and run his dog in the Am while the pro ran it in the open. Just seems to me that the amatuer status is really blurry. Like I said I have only been to one FT and may be way off, if I am please educate me. :lol:
Amatuer Stake
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Yes, the Amateur stake is based on the status of the handler, not the trainer.
There are actually two kinds of Amateur stake, Amateur, and Owner-Handled Amateur. In the Amateur, anyone can handle any dog in the stake, so long as that handler is an Amateur as defined in AKC's Rulebook. In the Owner-Handled Amateur, the dog has to be handled by one of the dog's registered owners, and that person still has to fall under the definition of Amateur. So even if a Pro owns his own dog, he can't run it in the Am.
Lisa
There are actually two kinds of Amateur stake, Amateur, and Owner-Handled Amateur. In the Amateur, anyone can handle any dog in the stake, so long as that handler is an Amateur as defined in AKC's Rulebook. In the Owner-Handled Amateur, the dog has to be handled by one of the dog's registered owners, and that person still has to fall under the definition of Amateur. So even if a Pro owns his own dog, he can't run it in the Am.
Lisa
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Amateur
Iowa Bob, your topic was a heated topic earlier this week on the WRC-Judging FT board. Reading a little between the lines I just wanted to write that if one is to be competitve against Amateurs that devote their life to training that you have to be willing to do the same or hire a good pro. An Amateur can train a competitve dog if several variables are available. First, ya got to know what you are doing and second, you need the man-power. I went the pro route because in my area there is no such think as Amateur FT Trainers, so there is no group to go out and train together with. 99.9% of the Amateur trainers here are HT folks so my dog would never see the difficult land marks or blinds. Back in New Orleans, an area rich with FT heritage, there are quite a few good FT Amateurs to train with, so one could do it without a pro. Cost becomes a factor and it cost less to pay a pro a handling fee rather then make the trial yourself. My goal is to make 8 trails a year personally. Yet I want them to run 16-18 trails a year. Hardest dog to beat at a FT is not one trained by a top pro but the one trained by the experienced Amateur with deep pockets and unlimited time.
Iowa Bob, your topic was a heated topic earlier this week on the WRC-Judging FT board. Reading a little between the lines I just wanted to write that if one is to be competitve against Amateurs that devote their life to training that you have to be willing to do the same or hire a good pro. An Amateur can train a competitve dog if several variables are available. First, ya got to know what you are doing and second, you need the man-power. I went the pro route because in my area there is no such think as Amateur FT Trainers, so there is no group to go out and train together with. 99.9% of the Amateur trainers here are HT folks so my dog would never see the difficult land marks or blinds. Back in New Orleans, an area rich with FT heritage, there are quite a few good FT Amateurs to train with, so one could do it without a pro. Cost becomes a factor and it cost less to pay a pro a handling fee rather then make the trial yourself. My goal is to make 8 trails a year personally. Yet I want them to run 16-18 trails a year. Hardest dog to beat at a FT is not one trained by a top pro but the one trained by the experienced Amateur with deep pockets and unlimited time.
Bob, what % of the dogs in a master or finished do you think are amatuer trained and handled?.. I kind of pay attention to that..
I have run a lot of hunt tests over the last couple years and everywhere I ran the pro handled dogs outnumbered the am's considerably.. and I have no idea how many of the Am handled dogs are pro trained.
I often wonder if that was the original intent of the hunt tests..
I have run a lot of hunt tests over the last couple years and everywhere I ran the pro handled dogs outnumbered the am's considerably.. and I have no idea how many of the Am handled dogs are pro trained.
I often wonder if that was the original intent of the hunt tests..
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