[MRGD]

What is Amish training. I know some Amish people but none are dog trainers. Somebody please explain.

mrgd

 

[Gruntinbuck]

How I understand it the Amish use alot of vocal persuasion in their training methods combined with a heeling stick. They don't use collars, the vocal/physical aspect are used to somewhat intimidate the response that they want. Kinda like when your father chased you around as a kid w/ his belt. Chris

 

[Miriam Wade]

How I understand it the Amish use alot of vocal persuasion in their training methods combined with a heeling stick. They don't use collars, the vocal/physical aspect are used to somewhat intimidate the response that they want. Kinda like when your father chased you around as a kid w/ his belt. Chris

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Chris A. & Paul Young need to post up quick!! I'm still "technically" Amish. I trained my first dog w/out a collar or ff (I think most Amish do ff though) & I think you can get to upper level HTs without a collar or force. I put lower level titles on my new dog w/out collar or force & then sent him to a pro to ff & cc because I just don't understand either. I've only held a transmitter once & that was at a training day 3 weeks ago w/ someone elses dog.
As for the "intimidate the response" being a description of Amish training-that's a wee bit off base. You teach first the same you do w/out a collar, but your corrections are either verbal or physical & not meant to be any more "intimidating" than a collar correction.

Bottom line-timing is timing & if you can get the correction in at a point that benefits the dog-the end result is the same.

M

 

[Mike Tome]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Chris A., but it's simply training w/o electricity.... as simple as that.

You still Amish Chris??? Sent you a PM on Deuce's first test...

Mike

 

[Chris Atkinson]

What is Amish training. I know some Amish people but none are dog trainers. Somebody please explain.

mrgd

MRGD


I am largely to blame for this. No I am completely to blame!



Back in 1998, RTF was a little tiny group of dog folks and we were not as "PC" as we sometimes try to be today.

I wanted a term to describe training without electricity and "Amish" fit at the time.

I figure that as long as mainstream pros can talk about "Chinese drills", the amish reference may be semi-ok to use among üs retrieverites!

Anyhow, that's all the term was intended to imply: "without electricity"

Chris- who lost his "Amish Trainers Association card" with this new 9 month. Old BLM and thus far has no regrets!

Back-nick-back

 

[Granddaddy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Chris A., but it's simply training w/o electricity.... as simple as that.

You still Amish Chris??? Sent you a PM on Deuce's first test...

Mike

Yes, Amish is just training without the ecollar. Sometimes it is confused & considered training without force. It is not that.....just think of it as the including most training methods/styles that don't use the modern ecollar but can include FF & use of other force methods.

 

[MRGD]

Well, that's just hilarious. It makes complete sense and that is kind of what I figured. Thankfully, it is a victimless PC violation since I don't know any Amish internet users! :wink:

mrgd

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Mike,


I got your note. Thanks!


Bus is on day 3 of double T and is doing fine. I really like him!


I am not the least bit surprised that folks are complimenting deuce's looks! Sounds like you got to say the old "gosh he's never done that before" line that unca Jerry is so fond of!

I showed my family a photo of paul sletton next to joe. They all asked who that guy is next to bus in the picture.

I never met joe black but I like joe black. One day I hope to (FC) meet joe black!

Chris who suspects his amish days are over for ever!

 

[Gruntinbuck]

How I understand it the Amish use alot of vocal persuasion in their training methods combined with a heeling stick. They don't use collars, the vocal/physical aspect are used to somewhat intimidate the response that they want. Kinda like when your father chased you around as a kid w/ his belt. Chris

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Chris A. & Paul Young need to post up quick!! I'm still "technically" Amish. I trained my first dog w/out a collar or ff (I think most Amish do ff though) & I think you can get to upper level HTs without a collar or force. I put lower level titles on my new dog w/out collar or force & then sent him to a pro to ff & cc because I just don't understand either. I've only held a transmitter once & that was at a training day 3 weeks ago w/ someone elses dog.
As for the "intimidate the response" being a description of Amish training-that's a wee bit off base. You teach first the same you do w/out a collar, but your corrections are either verbal or physical & not meant to be any more "intimidating" than a collar correction.

Bottom line-timing is timing & if you can get the correction in at a point that benefits the dog-the end result is the same.

M

Your absolutely correct!!! You pretty much explained what I was trying to say. But their is still intimidation used. Chris

 

[Jay Dufour]

Amish steadying????

At a training group this AM I noted that a fellow stood on his dogs tail :shock: I asked him what he was doing and he said the dog wasnt steady yet,so he's still standing on the dog's tail :shock: Is that a amish thing ? Never seen that in my life.Seems to me that it would promote creeping when he finally quits doing it.....but I guess I would wrather teach the dog to sit.

 

[moscowitz]

I don't know about standing on tail. But I agreee with Gruntinbuck as to what Amish is. Miriam you started an older dog in the hunt game which makes a difference in your opproach. Obviously your opproach didn't work on your young dog who has all this drive. To get to the upper levels FF is a necessary tool. Without it you have a gap in your training. I train amish and intimadation is necessary. Right in their face. Yes this is just my opinion.

But amish is not asking the dog to perform it is telling him to perform.

 

[john fallon]

Our own Franco/Booty, does not train Amish but does advocate standing on their tail for steadying a young dog.
I have tried it and it Does work.

john

 

[Uncle Bill]

For those of us from the real ooooold school prior to the E-collar era, it was as Chris stated. His name was superior to what we used...tennis shoe trainers. Being Amish was the same, only more lyrical.

Plus it conjures up so many beautiful and descriptive illustrations. Certainly Hutterite, while similar in genre, is more present day than the practices of the Amish, and just wouldn't be a suitable moniker for what we envision when the word Amish is used.

Alas, their numbers are dwindling, despite their past accomplishments. They have moved into the fast lane, and have discarded the well worn horse and buggy. Saddly, many of us converts probably placed too much pressure on those that have abandoned their roots. Dave and Paul and Frank may be the last hold outs. May they forever make it work.

UB

 

[Tim Carrion]

There is/was nothing polite or affectionate about "amish training". Before
e-collars it was bogey-men with switches, various projectiles from a variety of sources and alot of sweat.
Can it still work? For some games, yes but there are easier and better means to the end.

Tim

 

[paul young]

since my name got tossed in here, i have to comment.....

i sure hope nobody thinks i have people hiding in the weeds scaring hell out of my dog. :shock: likewise, i dont use whips or bats or slingshots or rat shot.

i don't even do a force fetch regimen. i guess you'd call it "force hold".

teach first and you don't need intimidation. they just need to know it's THEIR WORK, and that YOU'RE THE BOSS.

i will be discounted as a serious trainer by people whose only measure of success is all-age points. that's ok with me. the 3 dogs i have trained have filled the bill for me.

Chris, i'm glad you're finding the transition a good one and that you're enjoying Bus. from what you've told me, he's a quick study! :wink: -paul

 

[Peake]

I for one am glad such a colorful term was thought up by it's originator (OK maybe it's basic plain black only! ) conventional and tennis shoe trainer always carried such a heavy handed ring to it. FWIW I really dislike when people on the various boards connect hard and fast rules to Amish trainers and assume we all use treats and/or use British methods (and hey some do with satisfying results). So thanks Chris for the light hearted term and good luck with the new pup and modern e-tool used to get him over that proverbial mountain towards being a finished retriever. :wink:
Peake - Who always wishes he could have trained with legends like Cotton and Charlie Morgan etc
________
Ford Galaxie History

 

[TimMTP]

Count me in on the Amish side of things. But then again, I train those "gasp" British dogs...

 

[Miriam Wade]

I don't know about standing on tail. But I agreee with Gruntinbuck as to what Amish is. Miriam you started an older dog in the hunt game which makes a difference in your opproach. Obviously your opproach didn't work on your young dog who has all this drive. To get to the upper levels FF is a necessary tool. Without it you have a gap in your training. I train amish and intimadation is necessary. Right in their face. Yes this is just my opinion.

But amish is not asking the dog to perform it is telling him to perform.

Mike-

I really wasn't making a concious decision to abandon Amish & I'm still a bit torn. Finn now has a foundation that Kate didn't have-although she exceeded all expectations I had for her. I wouldn't have trained her any other way but Amish-I would have just been a little better at it! :wink:

My goal for Finn is to be as "collar light" as possible.

M

 

[Candy&Chilli]

Interesting discussion

I am just wondering how you guys would call my way of training. Over here nearly everyone is not training with any ecollar, plus 90% have never heard of FF before (I have and also have seen it when visiting the breeder of my first american golden)

I am wondering for a long time, why doing this FF??? All of my dogs LOVE to retrieve, of course they where bred to retrieve. From day one, they retrieve everything I throw for them.... no matter if its my car keys, their food bowls, bumbers, or any type of game (ducks, pheasants, hair, pigeons, ......)

I of course also have a command for picking up stuff, but my dogs are doing it without force, but because they like to work for me....

would be interesting what you guys think. Because I cant think of any situation where I would have needed FF on my dogs....

best regards from overseas

Alessa

 

[achiro]

Interesting discussion

I am just wondering how you guys would call my way of training. Over here nearly everyone is not training with any ecollar, plus 90% have never heard of FF before (I have and also have seen it when visiting the breeder of my first american golden)

I am wondering for a long time, why doing this FF??? All of my dogs LOVE to retrieve, of course they where bred to retrieve. From day one, they retrieve everything I throw for them.... no matter if its my car keys, their food bowls, bumbers, or any type of game (ducks, pheasants, hair, pigeons, ......)

I of course also have a command for picking up stuff, but my dogs are doing it without force, but because they like to work for me....

would be interesting what you guys think. Because I cant think of any situation where I would have needed FF on my dogs....

best regards from overseas

Alessa

FF has little to do with the actual retrieve. This is one of the big misconceptions that many folks that don't use FF believe.