[Keith Farmer]

Example situation:

Last series of a FT where dogs are required to honor. The working dog handler signals for marks and a problem arises which causes the judge to declare a no-bird. The honor dog can't stand the action and breaks requiring the honor dog handler to stop the break...

Does the honor dog get dropped for being out of control?



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[EdA]

The honor dog is dropped for breakng, in all-age stakes the requirement for steadiness for both the honor and working dogs is absolute.

 

[captainjack]

The honor dog is dropped for breakng, in all-age stakes the requirement for steadiness for both the honor and working dogs is absolute.

What about a minor stake?

 

[Mike Perry]

Once the judge calls a no bird, isn't all judging stopped?
Would seem to me the WD would go off line on lead and the HD is allowed to regroup until next WD is at the line and ready to begin.
If the break was clearly after the call, I would think it would not count either way.
MP

 

[whitefoot]

What about a minor stake?

Is there a differentiation between major and minor stakes when it comes to a true break? I didn't think there was. I thought in minor stakes you were allowed a controlled break, but that a break was a break no matter the level.

 

[K G]

The honor dog is dropped for breakng, in all-age stakes the requirement for steadiness for both the honor and working dogs is absolute.

Ed, in this case, a no bird was called BEFORE the honor dog broke. Do you still eliminate the honor dog for breaking after a no-bird is called in either an all-age or minor stake?

k g

 

[Dman]

Ed, in this case, a no bird was called BEFORE the honor dog broke. Do you still eliminate the honor dog for breaking after a no-bird is called in either an all-age or minor stake?

k g

Same question I have. Why was the no-bird called? If it hit the honor dog on the head and the honor dog broke, would it still be an elimination?

 

[Keith Farmer]

I was once faced with a rather cranky HT judge (not you Mike ) who scolded me for moving into the shade while on the honor box during a halt in the test...they stopped to repair a winger which had broken so I thought I was free to move off line. The judge said "don't you think you should clear it with me before you move?" The other judge readily came to my defense but the point is I did not ask and he was not happy.

 

[Keith Farmer]

Why was the no-bird called?

The gunners shot all three marks at once...:-/



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[mostlygold]

My understanding is that both dogs are under judgement until released by the judge. Just calling a no-bird is not a release. If the working dog broke when the judge called no-bird, then the working dog would be out. The honor dog also must wait until the judges release them to go offline or just hang out until things go going again. As a judge, I try to release both dogs very quickly once I call a no-bird, but at the higher levels, AA stakes in FT and MH in HT, the dogs must be steady.

Dawn

 

[Dman]

Why was the no-bird called?

The gunners shot all three marks at once...:-/



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Was it relatively the same test the other honor dogs received? If not, no way the honor dog should be dropped in this situation.

 

[EdA]

Ed, in this case, a no bird was called BEFORE the honor dog broke. Do you still eliminate the honor dog for breaking after a no-bird is called in either an all-age or minor stake?

k g

The calling of a no bird does not relieve the working or honoring dog of their steadiness obligation, therefore in all-age stakes elimination is compulsory. One could perhaps make the argument in the Qualifying that if the break was controlled and no interference occurred to the working dog that in such an instance a controlled break on the honor is permissible by the rules but the offending dog be penalized for unsteadiness.

 

[K G]

The calling of a no bird does not relieve the working or honoring dog of their steadiness obligation, therefore in all-age stakes elimination is compulsory. One could perhaps make the argument in the Qualifying that if the break was controlled and no interference occurred to the working dog that in such an instance a controlled break on the honor is permissible by the rules but the offending dog be penalized for unsteadiness.

That's what I was looking for. I agree 100%.

k g

 

[BJGatley]

Example situation:

Last series of a FT where dogs are required to honor. The working dog handler signals for marks and a problem arises which causes the judge to declare a no-bird. The honor dog can't stand the action and breaks requiring the honor dog handler to stop the break...

Does the honor dog get dropped for being out of control?



.

The point is…The dog broke and will it happen again……
Roll of the dice….

 

[Keith Farmer]

One could perhaps make the argument in the Qualifying that if the break was controlled and no interference occurred to the working dog that in such an instance a controlled break on the honor is permissible by the rules but the offending dog be penalized for unsteadiness.

Valuable insight with regards to the rules for honoring (I hope other judges take note). Many would not even consider the possibility of a controlled break on the honor in a qualifying...however, I agree with Ed and KG (and with the judges decision in the example given) to allow the dog to remain in contention with either no infraction or a minor penalty.


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[T-bone]

Not a field trial but in a master test (my first I might add) ...

Was put on honor and the gunners missed the flyer. A no-bird was called and I was told that I could go to the blind or stay where I was. Being pretty new to the game I was concerned that if I went back to the blind and then came back to honor my dog might think it was a new series and just might break. Decided to stay where I was. The flyer landed in the pond we were honoring on. After 25 mins (absolutely no exaggeration here) of the flyer being chased around they sluiced it right in front of my dog and had a pick-up dog retrieve it. Working dog came back to line and the series went off. My dog stayed put the whole time which was a miracle!

Anyways, one of the judges asked me after the test why I decided to stay at the line and honor with the no-bird. I explained my rationale and then asked him "what would have happened if my dog broke with the next dog?" He told me that they would have dropped me. He said that had the no-bird been a shot but poorly placed bird they wouldn't have given me the option to go to the blind and would have just called the next working dog. Made sense to me.

Now, if we can only get far enough in a Qual to honor ...