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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the double T, if you front finish your dog at the nearer apex, should you be able to back cast right or left inbetween the far overs to the back pile.

I was just wondering if the double T is the time to work on that. I think maybe I could iron it out, but am wondering whether to work on it or not.
 
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DL said:
On the double T, if you front finish your dog at the nearer apex, should you be able to back cast right or left inbetween the far overs to the back pile.

I was just wondering if the double T is the time to work on that. I think maybe I could iron it out, but am wondering whether to work on it or not.
I'm not sure I'm understanding... But on TT, you should be able to stop your dog (front finishes should all be at the baseline, where you are as handler once you're in the full TT) at the first intersection and cast back to the pile -- which means the dog has to go through the intersection of the far set of side piles.

If you're talking about STOPPING your dog at that intersection when it's en route, yes, they should be able to cast back from that intersection -- BOTH intersections, actually...

I HIGHLY recommend the first volume of Mike Lardy's articles. it describes yardwork in detail.

The sequence of TT (at least how I do it) is:

1) teach the back pile (reinforce go, stop, come as necessary) back to 100 yards

2) teach the "mini T" which is your double T with just the long side piles. Your baseline for this is normally just back from the intersection and then you teach it with the baseline back to the 100 yard line.

3) add in the earlier intersection and teach TT...

all the while reinforcing go/stop/come if necessary, mixing up remote and side sends and mixing up freebies with stopping/casting, and mixing up back and over casts when you do stop the dog (so dog doesn't think it's ALWAYS going to get cast to the side piles). In a nutshell, you'll typically send freebies to the back pile more frequently than stopping, and I prefer to cast to the back pile more often than I cast over... It can make for some long lessons as you try to balance it all out and get in a little bit of everything!!

-K
 

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Kristie Wilder said:
It can make for some long lessons as you try to balance it all out and get in a little bit of everything!!
How many retrieves would a high drive dog get on TT with you Kristie?

Regards, Jason
 
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Jason Ferris said:
Kristie Wilder said:
It can make for some long lessons as you try to balance it all out and get in a little bit of everything!!
How many retrieves would a high drive dog get on TT with you Kristie?

Regards, Jason
No clue. (I lie.. I do have a clue... see end of post. LOL) Never counted. Depends on the dog. Has very little to do with drive. Has to do with what we're trying to accomplish in that particular lesson. If dogs are having trouble with something and they get it right away, it could be a very very short (relatively speaking) lesson. Maybe 8-10 retrieves -- say in the example of a dog that's had a hard time casting back at an intersection (in previous lesson, for example, had wanted to cast over every time), if he casts back 3-4 times successfully, I'll quit maybe without even ever casting to the side... Regardless of high or low drive...

If weather is good and dog is doing well and I want to go longer, I will.

I would say that, on average, my yardwork sessions are shorter than most people would typically do. I'd rather be out doing marks. i do short lessons with high standards based on where the dog is at and what I want them to accomplish. If it takes 3 mins, that's all we do. If it takes 20 mins and the dog has enough juice, that's what we do... As far as actual numbers... 8-10 retrieves on the low end. 30 on the high end... but that's unusual for me... usually somewhere around 20 if I had to guess at how many bumpers I have to replant at the end of a session with a dog.

-K
 

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Since this is becoming the "Ask Kristie" thread, here's a philosophical conundrum I've always had (so you can further school us "hairy legs" :wink: ):

(DISCLAIMER: I have and do run T's and double T's, but my purpose is to control particular dogs who may have become "white-saavy" and will get knocked off their line due to a white distraction in the field. The side bumpers of a T for me are a diversion that they get taught to ignore relative to the line I give. I teach my casting via baseball, where the dog is walked to the pitcher's mound and begins from a "neutral" location in respect to the bumpers).

That said,,, If you have an exceptional lining dog, and he can see all piles in a double T, doesn't lining him down the middle (to the back pile), then stopping him at an intersection and giving him an over, communicate to him that his initial line was wrong? I understand that this is the reason for a number of freebies, but how many times is it safe to redirect a dog off of something he's done correctly?!?
 
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2-Dogs said:
Since this is becoming the "Ask Kristie" thread, here's a philosophical conundrum I've always had (so you can further school us "hairy legs" :wink: ):

(DISCLAIMER: I have and do run T's and double T's, but my purpose is to control particular dogs who may have become "white-saavy" and will get knocked off their line due to a white distraction in the field. The side bumpers of a T for me are a diversion that they get taught to ignore relative to the line I give. I teach my casting via baseball, where the dog is walked to the pitcher's mound and begins from a "neutral" location in respect to the bumpers).

That said,,, If you have an exceptional lining dog, and he can see all piles in a double T, doesn't lining him down the middle (to the back pile), then stopping him at an intersection and giving him an over, communicate to him that his initial line was wrong? I understand that this is the reason for a number of freebies, but how many times is it safe to redirect a dog off of something he's done correctly?!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Right now, I've basically taught the T at the top, and am moving back towards the baseline, currently at the apex.

I'm not really true to a program, because basically I subscribed into the idea that the dog should be changing directions after being stopped on a whistle. Most of the time, I've either cast to an over pile on the whistle, or it was a come in cast to pick up a bumper. On sit to pile, I was doing come in casts.

I'm not really having any problems at the moment. With the heat , I have been putting only four bumpers at the back pile, and one or two on the overs. I usually have to replant the back pile, but it gives my dog time to rest. I actually do that when the weather is cold also so I don't have to deal with so many bumpers. I walk my dog out into the field from my garage with a box of bumpers on my shoulder with my dog running around all excited, and she sits and maybe creeps a little while I put the bumpers out. I try to zap her for the creep, but my hands aren't always free.
 
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