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Should "Breed Banning" be allowed?

  • Yes...Some breeds are just too dangerous, Ban them.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No...The owners are the responsible party. NOT the dogs.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all. I was having a discussion on another board about the "Breed banning" that seems to be happening more frequently these days. This pertains primarily to "fighting" breeds such as pit bulls, rottweilers, etc. Some cities are enacting city wide bans of these breeds. My stance has always been that the owners are the problem....not the dogs. However, another bird dog owner posted something that made me reconsider my position. I felt that it was very well stated, and seems to prove a very stong case for breed banning. What do you all think?

Birddogman wrote:

I read and hear this sort of thing frequently. The position is that no breed should be banned – the owners are the problems and not the dogs themselves. Invariably someone has (or knows someone who has) one of the banned breeds and touts that it is the most wonderful, gentle dog, would never harm anyone, yaddadda.

My position may be heresy, but I spend a good bit of my time working with dogs - I am a bird hunting guide. Sure, it is true beyond doubt that nearly all of the dog problems you see are really handler/owner problems. I am constantly annoyed that I must keep my dogs on lead (they handle better off-lead) in campgrounds because there are too many irresponsible owners who have caused too many problems – makes me avoid campgrounds whenever I can. BUT (and this is a very important “but”), dogs have been carefully bred over many centuries to serve certain purposes and that breeding cannot be removed from a dog.

At one time, most dogs were working dogs as well as companions - now there are very few real working dogs doing what they were bred to do – most dogs are just companions or pets. Never forget that your pet was “designed” to do certain things and deep down inside it is still very much “wired” for those tasks.

My dogs are real working dogs – they hunt upland game birds all over the country - as well as being devoted loving pets. They are bred to be “versatile” hunting dogs – meaning that they are bred to point birds, retrieve downed game from land and water, and to find and quickly dispatch furred varmints for the gamekeeper. Yes, they can be taught that certain animals or even birds are part of the “pack” and are not to be harmed. For example, my daughter once brought a parakeet to a house full of birddogs and they ignored it once I made it clear that the bird was strictly off-limits. The dogs and I have a wonderful pet cat – and we all curl up and sleep together.

However, their breeding means that their hard-wired default setting is to instantly kill any rabbit, cat, raccoon, groundhog, fox or whatever that has not been declared off-limits. I don’t let them do this, but if I don’t stop them, that WILL happen.

I firmly believe dogs that were bred over the centuries for fighting, protection and the like are hard-wired for those tasks even though their only job in today’s world is to be a loving pet. A lapse by the owner, or just the right situation or series of events can trigger the breeding that cannot be removed and set the dog to doing just what it was bred do – kill another dog, incapacitate or kill a human “enemy” or whatever.

Therefore, I am careful, both personally and with my dogs, when around dogs that were bred to fight, protect, etc, not to trigger them to do what they were bred to do. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be loving, devoted pets – all dogs can be that – but it does mean there is always an element of risk – kinda like keeping a loaded, cocked gun on the table at all times in a house full of children. 99.9% of the time everything will be OK, but there is a chance that it will “go off” at some point, especially with an incompetent owner or a child in the picture (kids often don’t know how to relate to dogs and can trigger an in-bred response from a dog).

Bottom line: As much as I love dogs, I’m not so sure I disagree with those who would ban certain breeds of dogs from areas, like campgrounds, urban parks, etc, that are crowded with all sorts of people, especially children.
 

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Getting between 2 fighting pit bull, even if they are your own, is just plain
STUPID. Anyone who "knows" the breed would definitely agree.

What we have here in MOST of the cases is a LACK of knowledge on the breed these people are keeping for pets. Instead of Banning the breeds, there should be a law for their owners to take EDUCATIONAL classes on the breed before bringing them in.

What about the Shepard, Rottie, pit mixes? These dogs IF they even resemble the Banned breeds, will never have a chance. The BEST and most intelligent Rescues I have worked with where Rottie/lab and Pit/Lab mixes. Not a threatening bone in there body's. WHY? because they take after the more docile breed of the mix, not necessarily.

And by the way....a RAT TERRIER, if it had and extra 30 pounds on it be would be one of those "BANNED breeds". Ever see one fight???

To me, this is the same ol' fight as with "Gun Control".... take away the Guns, no matter who is handling them at the time, becouse they (can)cause death :roll: Give me a break.
 

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Re: yep

GregorMac said:
DRAKEHAVEN said:
This DEAD horse has already been flogged :?
I saw it twitch...HIT IT AGIN, HIT IT AGIN!





Vote tally is interesting


Do most of the rescue organizations adopt out pit & or pit mix and rott type dogs?
 

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Targander said:
Instead of Banning the breeds, there should be a law for their owners to take EDUCATIONAL classes on the breed before bringing them in.
Maybe I'm a bit cynical about the selective enforcement of laws in this country, but I just don't see this working. The reallity is we have laws that make it illegal to enter this country by just walking across the border, and those work so well.

Targander said:
Give me a break.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

3DK
 

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What we have here in MOST of the cases is a LACK of knowledge on the breed these people are keeping for pets. Instead of Banning the breeds, there should be a law for their owners to take EDUCATIONAL classes on the breed before bringing them in.
I agree, in addition to a serious need for crack down on basement breedings, especially in inner cities. It may be better to require owners of these breeds to obtain permits for ownership.
kinda like keeping a loaded, cocked gun on the table at all times in a house full of children. 99.9% of the time everything will be OK, but there is a chance that it will “go off” at some point, especially with an incompetent owner or a child in the picture (kids often don’t know how to relate to dogs and can trigger an in-bred response from a dog).
Leaving a loaded cocked gun on the table in front of children is irresponsible gun ownership. I wouldn't let any child play with a loaded gun...nor would I let them play with a breed that could do serious harm. I agree that kids do too many things that could aggravate the wrong dog, also they just don't know. I wouldn't even leave a kid unattended playing with any dog for that matter. A bb gun could do harm too.

But I'm partial :wink: We adopted this stray bully 7 years ago, when she was about a year old.
 

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Steve asked:"Do most of the rescue organizations adopt out pit & or pit mix and rott type dogs?

I would think that answer would depend on what part of the country you are in.

Here in WI., yes. They are screened, temp tested and the "norm" is to place them in foster with a family/persons that are knowledgeable with the more dominant (either visual/social) traits. This wasn't so years ago.

As I can remember going over to Milw's Animal Control and having the workers there "beg" me to take a look and temp test pit/rott lab mixes; because the WI. HS. wouldn't give (even the puppies) a physical look at them if they where "labeled" pit/rott mixes in their descriptions (WHS had at the time a contract with Animal Control for First Choice on unclaimed animals). Not all where temperament trustworthy, and PTS. Knowing HOW to test and WHAT to test them takes a special ability. I feel, very FEW is suited for the understanding of Canine Aggression and how to test....especially the "bleeding hearts". These breeds or mix's are NOT for most. They do, at times take a bit more diligence, but are greatly rewarded for taking that "extra" time 8)

The funny thing about this whole subject is; here in WI. EDUCATION and Breed information either through the Vets, Humane Soc's, Rescue and yes..Breeders, have worked tremendously. All it takes is the will to get it (information) out and be determined to do your part and put the time in.

Our incidences in this state went WAY DOWN over even the last 3 yrs.... :!: Breed Information and EDUCATION, if given the chance...WORKS

Chris your "Bully" is beautiful!! Gotta Love that FACE!
 

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Thanks Targander.
Around my area, pitts are no longer adopted out, or taken in, by shelters or rescue groups, other than to euthanize them. That was my experience with a Pitt pup I rescued while at work, from a neglectful owner. That, IMO, is part of the problem.
He was maybe 3-4 months old and his fate was sealed if I had not found him an owner myself...I can't handle any more dogs with my current living space. I'm not going to give in a dog, who in my opinion is a suitable dog for the right owner, to be euthanized. He didn't display food aggression or any other signs that would lead me to believe that he was aggressive, so I felt safe finding him a home. I make no claim to be an expert on the the topic of bull breeds or aggression studies in dogs, only more educated than the average. So I made what I believed was a good decision given the dog and new owner.
Here's the problem. If someone else had been the one to rescue him, and they wanted to find him a home so he wasn't eliminated, who's to say that they have any clue of what to look for in an aggressive dog, or the proper knowledge to place him in a proper home? I turned down a guy who had kids in the home....would they have done the same? A co-worker eventually adopted him.
Poor dead horse keeps keeps getting beat. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So, it's a dead horse......so what? If your viewing this thread, then it's an interesting topic. Lighten up. Besides.....I haven't seen any threads here about breed banning. I also think that the Poll is very interesting. I would be curious to know if the people who voted FOR banning live in urban, or rural areas.
 

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The stat's Id really like to see on these dog attacks is:

Where and at what stage(age) of the dogs life did the owners get these dogs.

I would think this would be a very educational and enlighten study
 

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What I want to know is: who are the 23 people that have voted "yes" on this poll?

Are they AR trolls who have accounts here on RTF but never post?
 
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