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haveing trouble with my dog breaking at the line in akc hunt test , in training she does not break, can anybody help me out on this.
 

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without much info, sounds like the dog has figured out that during training there can be a stimulus added for breaking, whereas at a test there is none....

my initial solution would be to run the dog without a collar during training and see if it produces the same result as it did in the test, and then deal with it accordingly

Have seen all kinds of anti breaking drills from the simple to the sublime, from archaic to clever...they can all work but there is also the remote possibility that you might be doing something different at the test as opposed to training that is giving the dog a mixed message that a break is acceptable...

more info is needed
 

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What else can you tell us about your dog? How old? What training has she been through? What level test is she running?

If she breaks on honor...
What do you do to let the dog know she's not getting the next bird? What commands or cues do you give before the birds are thrown and then as the birds are being thrown? How do you stand in relation to the dog? Do you honor in training?

If she breaks as the running dog...
Does she creep at all in training? Does she whine at the line in training? What do you do (cues or commands) before letting the judge know you're ready for the birds. In training, do you vary the time before sending after the last bird is down?
 

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Mine broke in the 1st series of the Grand today after a no bird the first trip to the line.

Knucklehead can't stand a no bird so we'll start mixing those in on a regular basis before the Master National

Do you train with popper loads? The big bang gets a lot of dogs that are normally steady.
 

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haveing trouble with my dog breaking at the line in akc hunt test , in training she does not break, can anybody help me out on this.
Yes there's help...Short-n-sweet-

Set your dog up to "fail".

Get some of your friends who have dogs, (a retriever club is ideal), and have an assistant toss the marks. Have your dog honor, while you are with the dog at the line. Do everything you normally do at a HT, and anything that triggers your dog to break...Then make the proper corrections.
Then set your dog up for success..

Bottom line-
Your dog gets absolutely nuthin' 'till it's steady and quiet...I mean NUTHIN'..... do an extended SIT...deprive the dog of the retrieve whether it's a bird or a bumper.
If he breaks,..STOP the dog and direct him right back to the line...REPS.
 

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When you train is it only in one location or do you have several training areas? If your dog is only perfect in one training area it does not understand that no matter where you are the standards are the same. The same with OB, do it in as many locations as possible with no or little distractions then go up from there. Like someone else mentioned you gave little information. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
she has a finished title on her in ukc she did creep at the line in ukc, trained with e collar till she broke on her frist master test and stopped training with e collar,, we train in dif location , at this point been training with healing stick
 

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she has a finished title on her in ukc she did creep at the line in ukc, trained with e collar till she broke on her frist master test and stopped training with out e collar,, we train in dif location , at this point been training with healing stick
Does she creep in AKC style (no duck calling or shooting from the line) training? What do you do when she creeps in training? What correction? Stick or ecollar? Do you continue with the test or have the bird(s) picked up and rethrown?

I can't follow what you're saying about the ecollar. I don't agree with training without it, if that's what you're saying. You want to minimize movement at the line. So find the correction, heeling stick or ecollar, that results in the least movement on application. Also, I wouldn't move the dog off the line after a creep. Again you are trying to instill in the dog no movement so a creep is met with a correction, the birds are picked up an rethrown. I would never let this dog have a bird in training if she creeps. Some dogs you can correct, reheel, and send. This is not one if those dogs. I would run singles only until she was sid with no creeping at all. This is reducing the difficulty (simplify) of the test rather than reducing the standard.
 

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I have to agree with captainjack. Your response does not make any sense. Is this the result of poor typing and you neglected to proof read it before you posted it or did you not understand the question?
What we need to know is how you steadied your pup before she was a year old.
 

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http://www.northernflight.com/forceorcorrection.htm

Applying this method can help with dogs who break at tests and not in training. Some dogs cannot keep their butt down or from moving forward in training even with 10 guys holding him down. It doesn't work with them very well but then again nothing will. But it doesn't sound like your dog is that way since its sits well in training.
Good luck.

Pete
 

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Pete

Thank you for adding this to the thread. I believe this will help me a great deal now and in the future. I am just starting out with my 7 month old pup and I see a lot of the behavior described in this thread both in my pup and in myself.

Ross
 

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http://www.northernflight.com/forceorcorrection.htm

Applying this method can help with dogs who break at tests and not in training. Some dogs cannot keep their butt down or from moving forward in training even with 10 guys holding him down. It doesn't work with them very well but then again nothing will. But it doesn't sound like your dog is that way since its sits well in training.
Good luck.

Pete
Very timely for us also. Glad I kept those back issues.
thank you,
 

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she has a finished title on her in ukc she did creep at the line in ukc, trained with e collar till she broke on her frist master test and stopped training with e collar,, we train in dif location , at this point been training with healing stick
It's good that you use a healing stick instead of an e-collar. Different tool. Some folks might disagree, but before the birds are released, get a verbal sit and a tap with the healing stick in training.
If she tries to be on her own, then have birds or bird pickup, and she goes on honor for the rest of the day with the other dogs training.
She understands you and your antics(sp) and at the same time, understands what is going on.
Watch the signs.....
 

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Heeling stick usually will produce more stable results than e-collars for line manner issues.

Evan
 

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http://www.northernflight.com/forceorcorrection.htm

Applying this method can help with dogs who break at tests and not in training. Some dogs cannot keep their butt down or from moving forward in training even with 10 guys holding him down. It doesn't work with them very well but then again nothing will. But it doesn't sound like your dog is that way since its sits well in training.
Good luck.

Pete
... I enjoyed reading this .... thanks for posting. I have done this many time.... I call it the “Back Up Drill” and It has helped for us.
 

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haveing trouble with my dog breaking at the line in akc hunt test , in training she does not break, can anybody help me out on this.
without much info, sounds like the dog has figured out that during training there can be a stimulus added for breaking, whereas at a test there is none....

my initial solution would be to run the dog without a collar during training and see if it produces the same result as it did in the test, and then deal with it accordingly

Have seen all kinds of anti breaking drills from the simple to the sublime, from archaic to clever...they can all work but there is also the remote possibility that you might be doing something different at the test as opposed to training that is giving the dog a mixed message that a break is acceptable...

more info is needed
I think that if during your training you run your dog without the e collar and set it up so that someone can pick up the bird when your dog breaks, you will have successfully used negative punishment. The way I see it, your dog gets reinforced every time it breaks and completes a retrieve. If the retrieve is a very high value reward then preventing it is an excellent punisher. Simulate hunt test conditions---no collar, lots of dogs, etc.--- at a club training day and run exactly as you would at a test. Get a young kid at the bird station to do the running and have everyone understand what you are trying to do. It might take a few repetitions for the dog to catch on but if your dog lives to retrieve you will have have taught a very good lesson.
 

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Obedience needs solidification in my thoughts at any level. The sit command should be the last command given before leaving the holding blind, before marks are thrown, and before honouring commences. Establishes control. During training with a group I also have them sit on honour for multiple dogs and utilize the healing stick for corrections. In the end sit means sit whenever and where ever.
 

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I learned to deal with this recently too. Rock steady in training(so I thought) and I leash-dragging maniac on test day. I'm willing to bet that there are some very subtile hints in training that get magnifiied during the test-hype. It may be as simple as a butt muscle twitch. The healing stick, back-up-heal drills, and firm OB became close friends with me and the pup. It made a HUGE difference.
 
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