[tshuntin]

With the talk of Line breeding vs outcross breeding lately, just wondering what everyones preferences are. Do you prefer to get your new pups from an outcross breeding or a line bred litter?

I will try to articulate this to make sense. How far back does a same or similar bred dog have to be to be considered an outcross? Would you say that if there are no same or similar bred dogs listed within the first four generations, would that qualify as a complete outcross or would it have to be further back than that? Travis

 

[Swampcollie]

I prefer the consistency found in linebred pups.

It seems every author has their own interpretation of how far removed an ancestor has to be to be considered an outcross.

 

[Bruce MacPherson]

If you consider that linebreeding is basically breeding dogs with the same genetic background in the foundation stock then anytime you breed away from that genetic makeup you are outcrossing.
I would say that 4 generations without animals from the original foundation line would be cosidered an outcross.

 

[h england]

is there such a thing as outcross most lines seem to cross a few times in most pedigrees . and it seems most breedings are getting bottlenecked as the stud options are getting limited in one way or another

 

[Swampcollie]

Common ancestors showing up within four generations would still be linebreeding to most folks.

Several authors today refer to any common ancestors within TEN generations as linebreeding. (Those authors appear to not be particularly fond of purebred dogs in general.)

 

[Richard Halstead]

In dogs an outcross is usually when the aren't any ancestors in common in a five generation pedigree.

It often referred to as inbreeding two close relatives are bred, brother to sister or first cousins.

Linebreeding is when we are trying to concentate desireable traits of a common ancestor. An example might be the sires sire and the dams
grandsire are the same dog and we want to try to concentrate the genes from that dog.

If you want to simplify things breed good to good and don't breed closely
related animals.

 

[Richard Halstead]

In dogs an outcross is usually when the aren't any ancestors in common in a five generation pedigree.

It often referred to as inbreeding two close relatives are bred, brother to sister or first cousins.

Linebreeding is when we are trying to concentate desireable traits of a common ancestor. An example might be the sires sire and the dams
grandsire are the same dog and we want to try to concentrate the genes from that dog.

If you want to simplify things breed good to good and don't breed closely
related animals.

 

[Baby Duck]

Richard

I totally agree.

Mike LaFond
Baby Duck Labradors

 

[Ken Archer]

I think we got to where we are to day through the judicious use of linebreeding. For example, Cup of Soup, http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=28907 , was the dam of 7 FC/AFC's, 1 CNAFC and 1 NFC. You might want to study her pedigree to see how some of the great dogs of the past have been produced before you condemn linebreeding.

 

[h4everything]

I was given a Brittany that was the result of a half brother to half sister breeding (4th or 5th repeat breeding the guy was actually trying to make money). The dog is still a pup and I haven't gotten much out of him yet, but he seems pretty stupid and is very soft. The guy that gave him to me is not much of a dog or animal person. I don't even know for sure if he knew what he was doing. I asked him about it after the fact and he said that the people that he sold pups to where doing fine. I think line breeding is good but there has done very carefully.

 

[Targander]

My choice is a pup out of a line bred (2nd generation preferred) bitch, Out crossed to a strong producing, proven male.

Color would be totally irrelevant (but will prefer black )

 

[goldeneye]

This poll shows just how poorly understood breeding tools and genetics really are.

Inbreeding and line breeding, as well as outcrossing, are simply tools used by knowledable breeders to achieve their breeding goals.

I would prefer a pup from a breeder that properly used all the tools of his/her trade, just as I would prefer a house built by a carpenter who properly used both a hammer and a saw.

I did not vote since this was not an option.

 

[B. A.]

This article does a pretty good job discussing the basic considerations of linebreedng (and inbreeding).

http://www.nylana.org/RRACI/brackett.htm

 

[Latisha]

This article does a pretty good job discussing the basic considerations of linebreedng (and inbreeding).

http://www.nylana.org/RRACI/brackett.htm

Bob, that is an excellent article and while I don't want to take away from the good information it contains, I want to point out it is written with conformation breeding in mind.

It seems like every article I have read that is a strong proponent of a heavy line-breeding program is breeding for conformation traits. It is obvious that line-breeding and judicious inbreeding can solidify a certain type or "style" that breeds true within a breed. However, seeing what the American German Shepherd, and other heavily conformation-bred breeds are like today, I wonder if this program is really the most effective for performance traits. One would think the same theory applies, and that the selection criteria is just different, but I have yet to see many articles (would love to read them) from highly successful working dog breeders emphasizing a heavy line-bred program for performance.

Just some thoughts,
Latisha

 

[jamen]

Richard. What do you know about breeding German Shepards?? No this is not a joke.An example might be the sires sire and the dams
grandsire are the same dog and we want to try to concentrate the genes from that dog. 8)

Jeff Amendola

 

[Ken Archer]

It seems like every article I have read that is a strong proponent of a heavy line-breeding program is breeding for conformation traits. It is obvious that line-breeding and judicious inbreeding can solidify a certain type or "style" that breeds true within a breed. However, seeing what the American German Shepherd, and other heavily conformation-bred breeds are like today, I wonder if this program is really the most effective for performance traits. One would think the same theory applies, and that the selection criteria is just different, but I have yet to see many articles (would love to read them) from highly successful working dog breeders emphasizing a heavy line-bred program for performance.Latisha

Maybe you should do a little research on the Pointer breed (field Pointers, that is). All the top Pointer lines, particularly the Elhew line, are intensely line-bred. A quick Google search of "Elhew" will give you an idea of just how much Elhew dominates the Pointer performance dogs.

 

[Latisha]

Maybe you should do a little research on the Pointer breed (field Pointers, that is). All the top Pointer lines, particularly the Elhew line, are intensely line-bred. A quick Google search of "Elhew" will give you an idea of just how much Elhew dominates the Pointer performance dogs.

I am aware of the heavy influence Elhew has had in pointers, but have not seen any articles detailing their breeding program. They may be out there somewhere, and I would be interested in reading them for sure.

Latisha

 

[Pasquatch]

They may be out there somewhere, and I would be interested in reading them for sure.

Latisha

I think Bob Wehle wrote a book on his breeding practices.

That avatar has got to go. It is scarier than the last one.

Ken .........What is going on in your avatar :shock:

 

[Ken Archer]

The late Bob Wehle wrote two books - "Wing and Shot" and "Snakefoot" - detailing his breeding methods and his thoughts on training. I'm going to the library tomorrow and pick up a copy of each.

 

[Latisha]

I have heard of the Snakefoot book - will have to add it to my reading list!

What's wrong with my avatar? Don't you know "art" when you see it? :lol:

Latisha