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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How much does the pup get fromt he Sire? I've always heard the Sire throws the color, and the female gives the smarts.
If you have a really great Sire that marks great, just a awesome dog (i've been reading about the Grady Sire) and say you have a female dog, good papers good maker, just not a really strong drive but does retrieve to hand and all.
What would the pups be like?
This dog breeding is something I touched on in Animal Science class with labs and coat color. It's always been facinating to me.
Thanks if you have any suggestions or thoughts on this. I guess it's not a right or wrong question.
 

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As far as the color . . . http://www.vetgen.com/chromagene-coat-color.html
81 (?) different combos. Everything else 50% from sire and dam, and no guarantees. Check out other simular breedings/pedigrees, clearances and then check out who bred them, who raised them, who trained them, how many tests and what tests and at what age, ect. Lots of fun research coming your way!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah it will be a lot of fun stuff!
I've been wondering how predictable these litters are out of any 2 dogs. If there is 10 pups I figure a few maybe 2 or 3 will be jam up dogs the rest will be alright and maybe 1 or 2 will be just ok, not great or good but they will fetch.
I know of some dogs coming out of great lines and they are smart but have no drive or desire to retrieve.
It's kinda like a gamble I guess or luck of the draw in a way.
 

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How much does the pup get fromt he Sire? I've always heard the Sire throws the color, and the female gives the smarts.
If you have a really great Sire that marks great, just a awesome dog (i've been reading about the Grady Sire) and say you have a female dog, good papers good maker, just not a really strong drive but does retrieve to hand and all.
What would the pups be like?
This dog breeding is something I touched on in Animal Science class with labs and coat color. It's always been facinating to me.
Thanks if you have any suggestions or thoughts on this. I guess it's not a right or wrong question.
Please define "good papers"? Doubt Chad would do your hypothetical breeding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm not using his Sire, just asking to try to figure this stuff out if there is such a thing.
If you have a Sire with multiple GRHRCH dogs on the papers, some NAFC's on papers and you have a Dam with some of the same and some british lines what would be the outcome of the pups. Just say she's got Lean Mac breeding, Roux, etc on the papers.
I just wonder how many great dogs breed and how many in a litter of say 10 are not that great?
A friend was asking and he's thinking about going to a Golden Retriever since labs seem to be hit and miss anymore. He said you might pay 1500 and get one that don't give a flip about a duck or fetching a steak. I think all breeds are this way probably, he had a golden and it was awesome. I've had good labs and 1 or 2 that weren't worth .50 cents.
 

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I'm not using his Sire, just asking to try to figure this stuff out if there is such a thing.
If you have a Sire with multiple GRHRCH dogs on the papers, some NAFC's on papers and you have a Dam with some of the same and some british lines what would be the outcome of the pups. Just say she's got Lean Mac breeding, Roux, etc on the papers.
I just wonder how many great dogs breed and how many in a litter of say 10 are not that great?
A friend was asking and he's thinking about going to a Golden Retriever since labs seem to be hit and miss anymore. He said you might pay 1500 and get one that don't give a flip about a duck or fetching a steak. I think all breeds are this way probably, he had a golden and it was awesome. I've had good labs and 1 or 2 that weren't worth .50 cents.
Are you getting your information from Trevor? Please define "hit or miss"? May need to research more and post less so you might become more knowledgeable on the subject.;)
 

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I'm not using his Sire, just asking to try to figure this stuff out if there is such a thing.
If you have a Sire with multiple GRHRCH dogs on the papers, some NAFC's on papers and you have a Dam with some of the same and some british lines what would be the outcome of the pups. Just say she's got Lean Mac breeding, Roux, etc on the papers.
I just wonder how many great dogs breed and how many in a litter of say 10 are not that great?
A friend was asking and he's thinking about going to a Golden Retriever since labs seem to be hit and miss anymore. He said you might pay 1500 and get one that don't give a flip about a duck or fetching a steak. I think all breeds are this way probably, he had a golden and it was awesome. I've had good labs and 1 or 2 that weren't worth .50 cents.

No way of supporting your theories or questions. Regarding the $1500 lab that wouldn't fetch a steak are we talking performance lines or show dogs. Seen some ads for big $ without any proof of performance or traits

Also lot depends on who gets the pups
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nope, never talked to a Trevor.
Just a family friend. He says a lot of labs seem that they lack desire and drive to retrieve. They went to a guys house recently and he had a Golden and not trained at all and it was fetching like crazy. He said that made him miss his Golden.
I know some litters have lots of good lines, and some of them produce good litters and some don't produce many "jam up" pups.
We were talking about $$ and the puppies and he hates to spend money and it turn out to be a "dud" as he calls them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I can agree that it depends on who gets the pup and the time they put in with the pup as well.
But I was kinda wanting to know how much the Sire puts in on the pups, if it's 50/50 on brains and everything that would be good and then do some back ground on the Sire/Dam and see them work.
Before I looked at papers and got a dud that I paid good $ for. Then I looked at papers and the parents on this last pup and watched them work and saw they were great dogs, and forked the $$ over and got a good gun dog.
 

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Nope, never talked to a Trevor.
Just a family friend. He says a lot of labs seem that they lack desire and drive to retrieve. They went to a guys house recently and he had a Golden and not trained at all and it was fetching like crazy. He said that made him miss his Golden.
I know some litters have lots of good lines, and some of them produce good litters and some don't produce many "jam up" pups.
We were talking about $$ and the puppies and he hates to spend money and it turn out to be a "dud" as he calls them.
You should contact Trevor and Kevin, good times for sure.
 

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From an article long ago written by Patricia Crary for the publication of the Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier Club of America. "The Pearl of Great Price":
A horse breeder once told me, "A good mare gives more than half to her foal." This was a knowledgeable man, a long-time successful breeder. I started to object. Genetically the inheritance gift must be half.

"No." He went on to say, "At the instant the egg is fertilized, they have each given one half, stud and mare. But from that point on, it is the mare's own healthy body that nourishes that newly created life. At the instant of fertilization that organism acquired its total potential. From then on the realization of that potential will be up to the dam."

This is as true for the brood bitch as it is for the mare. Man, the breeder of record, will take the responsibility only at some time after the actual birth, and if that responsibility MUST be taken very early in the young life, it is very possible that no matter how diligent the care, it shall never provide what would have been derived from a healthy, temperamentally sound dam providing from her own body the perfect diet, warmth and security.
 

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Mom gives more. Mitochondrial DNA only comes from the mom.

Plus, mom nurtures them both pre and postnatally. She has a chance of imprinting some of herself into the puppies.

For most of the studs it's most likely a wham bam thank you ma'am if the stud was even lucky enough to meet the bitch nose to tail, maybe tail to tail in this case. :cool:
 

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very interesting post. i have bred litters and kept a female and trained her brother. they are as diffrent as can be. brother is awsome and will run master by age two. sister will be lucky two recieve her junior title. i do not know if the 50% deal is correct. there just seems to be a diffrence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
He considers "jam up" to be one heck of a dog, a really good retriever. One that's not hard headed as a rock and loves the game.
I had a female one time, good hunting dog, and I got the pleasure of hunting with her Sire, she acted just like him!! Never been around him, looks like him and had a lot of the same actions. It was kinda neat in a way, like hunting with her but it was a him.
I've seen dogs in litters that were opposites also.
 

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This is way some folks by a started dog so they can see what is happening at a later age. No doubt there can be differences in litter mates. But best way to reduce risk is to pick a good breeding.
 

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You may want to do some googling of "prepotency" and "heritability".

There are no fer shur's in breeding. It is an inexact science at best, although a fascinating one.
 
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