RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see a lot of dogs out there with breedings to "daughter of". If the "daughter of" was extremely well bred and had a very fine pedigree yet she herself was not yet truly proven (yet has potential and seems to have ability just not run enough) was bred to a NAFC or NFC....would this be considered a good breeding with great potential? Just asking for future reference.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,787 Posts
It depends. An "unknown" is exactly that. An "unknown"......I would take a chance on a breeding of an "unknown" if I really liked the pedigree and it was priced appropriately.

WRL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,660 Posts
does the " daughter of " have litter mates that are proven or titled, maybe she was from a home that did not campaign her, maybe she is from a repeat breeding where the first litter produced proven winners...not a breeding expert, but sometimes you have to read between the lines and look beyond what is on the pedigree
 
G

·
does the " daughter of " have litter mates that are proven or titled, maybe she was from a home that did not campaign her, maybe she is from a repeat breeding where the first litter produced proven winners...not a breeding expert, but sometimes you have to read between the lines and look beyond what is on the pedigree
Bon, hold on to your hat. You know does this does happen once in a blue moon...I agree with you. :eek: Though I will clarify that I believe, in most cases, at times you also need to trust the pedigree and not look beyond it. We may be talking semantics here though. I'm saying look at the pedigree and don't always get hung up on accomplishments of a particular bitch if she is from a proven litter and just may not have been campaigned. That's when you need to know if you can trust the breeder's evaluation of the bitch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Ya it kinda drives me nuts when people say daughter of, litter mate of, great ancestor of... Just say who the dog is and be done with it! Quit beating around the bush lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,272 Posts
As someone who currently has a litter in the works from a female who .... is a “Daughter of” this thread caught my eye. SSCarnage maybe take a moment consider this:

My female has 2 FC/AFC siblings and other siblings with hunt test/SRS accomplishments..... those siblings have also produced some nice offspring. She is OFA excellent/normal and clear of the other key tests we all like to see our dogs have to their genetic credit.

This girl was not owned by me for the 1st 5 years of her life.. her previous owner (originally had purchased her to be a field trial competitor) was faced with life happenstances that left her “un-trained.”

This is female is a great natural talent with so very little training under her belt - she is a good marker, a smart hunter, has TONS of drive etc ... etc.... I believe based on her natural abilities, what she has managed to learn in the last few months of “formal” training, her pedigree behind her and the combination of the chosen stud dog’s abilities and also his pedigree... We should have some nice pups on the way!

Dogs/bitches don’t come with titles, humans have to help them achieve that. Because of the lives of humans - sometimes - a dog (male or female) is not tested to “prove” what he/she is actually capable of.

Without titles.... it is hard to get across in a classified what the potential of the pups may be without the mention of the Sire/Dam with the “proven” accomplishments. I am very excited about my up-coming litter from the “Daughter of.”
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
It depends. We know it can happen, and it happened to me, but the pups should be priced accordingly. Just because a breeding like that was done doesn't mean it will sell at the high price an FC or QAA titled dam will bring when she is a JH dam or just a wonderful dog to the owner accompanied by a list of attributes a mile long unseen by anyone but the owners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
526 Posts
Sometime I think that we loose sight of the impact the female has on a litter. When you have a proven bitch with titles infront or behind her name, you KNOW what you are buying into. Never EVER short sell the bitch because her part may well be over 50% of the breeding. Always look at pedigree, titled siblings and generations of titled relatives. It all points you into the direction of a dog that is trainable. Price pups based on your females accomplishments or the track record of previous litters that she has had. Nothis is wrong with a "daughter of" female. Her pups just should not be priced as high as a proven female.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
RD, I'd be the first to admit that there are exceptions to every rule as it may be put... But I'm a bit of an upfront, meat and potatoes type of person. Just be straight up right from the get go as to who is breeding who... I've got no issues when in the ad where it states accomplishments from litter mates etc... It definitely goes towards the pedigree and possible outcome of the litter for sure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Ya it kinda drives me nuts when people say daughter of, litter mate of, great ancestor of... Just say who the dog is and be done with it! Quit beating around the bush lol
SSCarnage,
My first thought that came to mind when I read your response was that nearly EVERY potential buyer I've dealt with when selling puppies wants to discuss the dams parents, littermates, and the MOST important factor in a breeding-the pedigree (history)! The bitchline should always be discussed. Aren't these the key ingredients to buying a quality pup?

When I bred my first litter. I bred an HRCH/MH bitch to Cosmo. She just happened to have a fantastic pedigree(?), due to the fact that she was sired by a fantastic animal (FC/AFC-Stepper) and out of an awesome MH bitch with 2-FC siblings, sired by NFC/NAFC-Super Tanker, out of an FC/MH bitch. If she hadn't of had those pedigree credentials I'd have
never gotten those pups into FT homes. Noone knew anything about me or my bitch, but they knew the pedigree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Let me clarify this a little bit. "Daughter of" or Dam of this litter to be is daughter of two NFC dogs. Sire of this litter to be is NFC whose Dam and Sire are both NFC and all grandparents of both Sire and Dam are FC, AFC or "National" titled. Only Dam or "daughter of" is presently untitled. Not run much but capable at 4 years of age and presently running AKC and one SH pass away from running for MH. Wouldn't the pups from this litter have a better than excellent chance of doing well?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,787 Posts
Not necessarily. Pups "out of" your bitch are not gonna bring the price that a titled sibling will bring. Is it possible your female had a ton of talent and was just not given the opportunity? Yep. But its also possible she was the "dud" of the litter (just saying) regardless who her parents are. So......price accordingly. A strong pedigree is going to help and definitely won't hurt. But a PROVEN TITLED bitch is always gonna bring a better "price and potential" then one unproven.

WRL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,807 Posts
Sometime I think that we loose sight of the impact the female has on a litter. When you have a proven bitch with titles infront or behind her name, you KNOW what you are buying into. Never EVER short sell the bitch because her part may well be over 50% of the breeding. Always look at pedigree, titled siblings and generations of titled relatives. It all points you into the direction of a dog that is trainable. Price pups based on your females accomplishments or the track record of previous litters that she has had. Nothing is wrong with a "daughter of" female. Her pups just should not be priced as high as a proven female.
Totally agree!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
Let me clarify this a little bit. "Daughter of" or Dam of this litter to be is daughter of two NFC dogs. Sire of this litter to be is NFC whose Dam and Sire are both NFC and all grandparents of both Sire and Dam are FC, AFC or "National" titled. Only Dam or "daughter of" is presently untitled. Not run much but capable at 4 years of age and presently running AKC and one SH pass away from running for MH. Wouldn't the pups from this litter have a better than excellent chance of doing well?
There are not too many NFC X NFC breedings out there. What is her breeding?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,164 Posts
Lee Jones, sent you a PM
 
G

·
Sire of this litter to be is NFC whose Dam and Sire are both NFC
Are you sure about that?

SSCarnage, no offense, but if you are looking for a meat and potatoes type of pedigree, you might be on the wrong thread. You are conversing with some extremely experienced breeders here. And not to downplay some of the dog games everyone enjoys and rightfully so, but we're not talking HRC here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Are you sure about that?

SSCarnage, no offense, but if you are looking for a meat and potatoes type of pedigree, you might be on the wrong thread. You are conversing with some extremely experienced breeders here. And not to downplay some of the dog games everyone enjoys and rightfully so, but we're not talking HRC here.[/

Whatever.
 
G

·
Are you sure about that?

SSCarnage, no offense, but if you are looking for a meat and potatoes type of pedigree, you might be on the wrong thread. You are conversing with some extremely experienced breeders here. And not to downplay some of the dog games everyone enjoys and rightfully so, but we're not talking HRC here.[/

Whatever.
And maybe when you grow up you will learn the difference between field trial breedings and HRC breedings and maybe you will even learn how to quote here on RTF. Best of luck with that!

And for all of you who think the old RTF culture is dead and gone, be skeered, very skeered. :cool: Peanuts, meet molars. Crunch.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top