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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am considering campaining my dog for SH next year. For that, I need to do doubles. I was thinking of just a bumper boy or just a winger, but after talking to several people at the SH competition yesterday, I got the impression, I need one of each. I have no training partners. (My wife helps on occasion), so this is a one man effort. I was thinking bumper boys and wingers were a little pricey, but after reading the classifieds, I see the prices hold up okay, so as soon as my dog gets his SH, I can sell everything.

The question is do I need one of each or will just a bumper boy do for doubles?
 

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I have a BB 4 shooter. I love it, but wish I had another one, so I could do some more complicated set-ups. The wingers are good, but will need re-loaded after every throw. With the wingers you have the option to throw birds or bumpers. So why would you sell everything after you get SH? Why wouldn't you keep going for the MH? Anyhow, good luck.
 

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If you are close to a city, you can hire the homeless for a very low wage. Usually a hamburger and $5.


Politically incorrect regards
 

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If you buy a bumper boy with the idea of doing doubles-your option is doing flower pots. Period. If you can afford 2 wingers-that's the way to go, but...

...do try & see if you can drum up some real live people to throw & find a group if possible. Not only will your dog get help if needed, but watching how the other dogs & handlers react to a setip is invaluable.

I'm no expert-by any means, but I like to think my first dog taught me something, so: when training for senior-don't get too hung up on doing a lot of multiple marks. Never underestimate the value of a single as far as working with dog on line, focus & building factors. Do more singles than multiples & remember to train with the idea of teaching-not testing every time you do a setup. Work on your blinds from the same perspective & don't be afraid to step back (pattern blinds, drills, etc) as opposed to a steady diet of cold blinds. More than anything (besides natural ablity) you want a confident dog who works with you.

And I bet you keep your equipment & move on to Master when you find out how much fun training & testing is!!

M
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
labman52738 said:
I have a BB 4 shooter. I love it, but wish I had another one, so I could do some more complicated set-ups. The wingers are good, but will need re-loaded after every throw. With the wingers you have the option to throw birds or bumpers. So why would you sell everything after you get SH? Why wouldn't you keep going for the MH? Anyhow, good luck.
Labman, if I knew how to train a dog, I would consider it. I am going by books and videos. I sent the dog to be trained, so he knows more than I do. When he came back last year, I was told he had been started on hand signals, but it was up to me to continue and to learn how to use them. I talked to some trainers yesterday at a hunt test and their fee for teaching me how to handle was $150.00 per hour.

MRGD, everybody works around here. I am not in a city.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Miriam Wade said:
If you buy a bumper boy with the idea of doing doubles-your option is doing flower pots. Period. If you can afford 2 wingers-that's the way to go, but...

...do try & see if you can drum up some real live people to throw & find a group if possible. Not only will your dog get help if needed, but watching how the other dogs & handlers react to a setip is invaluable.

I'm no expert-by any means, but I like to think my first dog taught me something, so: when training for senior-don't get too hung up on doing a lot of multiple marks. Never underestimate the value of a single as far as working with dog on line, focus & building factors. Do more singles than multiples & remember to train with the idea of teaching-not testing every time you do a setup. Work on your blinds from the same perspective & don't be afraid to step back (pattern blinds, drills, etc) as opposed to a steady diet of cold blinds. More than anything (besides natural ablity) you want a confident dog who works with you.

And I bet you keep your equipment & move on to Master when you find out how much fun training & testing is!!

M
Hi Mariam,
In training my dog for JH, I found out I had no aptitude for it. The dog however, loves it, which is why I am continuing. My wife sees the flustration I am experencing and is against the idea. The club I belong to is 5 hours away round trip. If traffic is heavy, it could be 7 hours. A couple of years ago, I did have someone to train with, but they moved to California. And Mariam, the people who trained my dog all told me the dog was too good for me and is wasted on me. After training him, they no longer speak to me. So the dog has lots of potential.
 

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Think of the Bumper Boy Derby double route: this one rather than the BB two shooter lets you add on to the same control unit. If you watch for a deal you can get the main shooter unit and a second shooter for around 1000.00 The combo's are numerous with these two units and you an do triples and diversions also. I really like mine. Just be sure to get your bride the traditional off-setting gift first. :lol:
 

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I have two Bumper Boy Derby Doubles. With this setup you can do singles, or doubles, and even triples and quads if you have them shoot bi-directional but the bumpers obviously come from the same source. They will shoot 30 - 40 yards from the unit, so about 70 yards apart if bi-directional.

I train by myself with one dog and it works great. With one dog the doubles are more than enough. Also - I only run hunt tests, so that's what I train for.

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
KEukaFlyer said:
I have two Bumper Boy Derby Doubles. With this setup you can do singles, or doubles, and even triples and quads if you have them shoot bi-directional but the bumpers obviously come from the same source. They will shoot 30 - 40 yards from the unit, so about 70 yards apart if bi-directional.

I train by myself with one dog and it works great. With one dog the doubles are more than enough. Also - I only run hunt tests, so that's what I train for.

Good Luck!
So what you are saying I should stick to bumper boys and get two.
Hopefully, I will have no need for them after next summer and I can sell them on the classifieds here. I watched several dogs fail at honor yesterday and a couple who dove into the water when the first duck was launched. Practicing remote launches will work on steadying during walk up. I can always take my 5 hour drive to a training session with the club where they will be launching ducks with wingers. Hopefully, I won't need to do that drive too often.
 

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yeah i would definitely get two BB. im in an area where it is really hard to find someone to train with to go along with my working hours. bumper boys show up everyday and are right on time. if you get two derby doubles you'll be able to be way more flexible with your marks than you would with wingers. the price might look steep, but after you get them there is no doubt that you'll be very pleased. if you want to stop after your senior hunter, id be interested in buying them from you. good luck and have fun!
 

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I was once in your boat somewhat as well. I trained a SH with two BB derby doubles. AND LIVE HELPERS on occasion. I now have the same BB's and two wingers (gunners up brand). You must throw birds to train a bird dog so, either buy wingers ( at least three) or pay some help to throw real birds. In the meantime, using some creative thinking, you can 'get by' with some bumper boys. BB's are great and the customer service has been wonderful. But you need the flexibility being a solo trainer. If $ was of concern, I'd buy three or four wingers. Why? Because you can't effectivley teach some concepts without throwing singles from multiple guns and they will chunk dummies as well as birds. Don't get hung up on thinking, 'okay SH...doubles. Train for a higher level than you wish to achieve. With what I have I can run 4 gun stations (5 if I have help which is rare), and I run probably 80% of my marks as singles from these 4-5 stations.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The dog retrieves anything I throw. During hunting season, he retrieves ducks, geese, pheasants and quail. He is particularly funny when it comes to upland. When the grass is tall, he bounds like a kangaroo in order to see better. He goes vertical, looks in different directions with each bound.
 

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Your on track with the purchase of some quality training books/DVD's first :D , then if you have access to, or have a buddy with a welder and some fabrication skills make your own wingers. Basically they are nothing more than a bird sligshot, and most of the stuff outside of the basic framework like the pouch latex tubing and remote release electronics can be purchased from a vender like myself. My Elsema remote electronics has helped many entry level guys on a budget get going at a reasonable price.
 

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From what I am reading the trainer you used is well less of a trainer than you thought. I don't beleive any trainer should make the coments that you ibndicate he used. The trainer should have worked with you before ever sending the dog home. They should also be just a phone call away if you need help. I have used 4 different pro's and all I have to do when I get stuck is pic up the phone and tell them what the dog is doing wrong and for the most part they can tell me what I a=need to do to correct it.

Not a trainer by any means regards.
 

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rumble said:
labman52738 said:
I have a BB 4 shooter. I love it, but wish I had another one, so I could do some more complicated set-ups. The wingers are good, but will need re-loaded after every throw. With the wingers you have the option to throw birds or bumpers. So why would you sell everything after you get SH? Why wouldn't you keep going for the MH? Anyhow, good luck.
Labman, if I knew how to train a dog, I would consider it. I am going by books and videos. I sent the dog to be trained, so he knows more than I do. When he came back last year, I was told he had been started on hand signals, but it was up to me to continue and to learn how to use them. I talked to some trainers yesterday at a hunt test and their fee for teaching me how to handle was $150.00 per hour.

MRGD, everybody works around here. I am not in a city.
What area do u live in that trainers get 150 per hour ?

That is an amount that is not realistic. That amount at 1 hour daily x 30 days is 4500 per month or 53,000 per year

For that price the dog should drive me to the hunt,shoot the birds,retrieve them,cook them and serve them to me,then do the dishes :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Lil Dikens, that is the cost to train ME, not the dog.

Dale, Yes, the trainer made my wife cry at a seminar, when in front of 30 people, the trainer made that statement. On the other hand, the trainer knew the bloodline and did the 49 day eval of the litter.
 

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Lil Dikens, that is the cost to train ME, not the dog.

Dale, Yes, the trainer made my wife cry at a seminar, when in front of 30 people, the trainer made that statement. On the other hand, the trainer knew the bloodline and did the 49 day eval of the litter.
The trainer is a dick. Find another one. Evaluating a pedigree isn't hard. Lots of people can do it. The 49th day evaluation is a crap shoot. Find a pup you like and pick it. Head picks the litter, heart picks the puppy.

And for the 4th time, WHERE IN WASHINGTON ARE YOU?

I used to live there (9 months ago) and can point you in the right direction. I knew 3 pro trainers and their per hour costs were around $50 to $60 to train you and the dog. Plus they gave you drills and "homework" to do during the week between visits.

I have two bumper boy derby doubles and am happy. I would recommend getting the advanced sound. It is worth the extra $$, especially on windy days.

Brian
 
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