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The questions have been raised about the requirement for handlers to carry a gun at AKC hunting tests. What purpose does it serve and do you think it is a meaningful addition to the rules?
Carrying a gun at hunt tests?
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93 Posts
Tom, I'm guessing that's why there is an emphasis on "safe gun handling practice"? It would be more difficult to use the gun to control heeling and handle it "safely" at the same.
Clipper, that's a good point. That's precisely why I added giving the handler the choice option to the poll.
Personally, my gun has a sling and it goes on my shoulder if I am handling my dog in the field. That's the safest method I have for "unhanding" my gun out in the marsh. I find dealing with the gun and handling on a blind in a test to be nothing more than a nuisance. Maybe there should be a requirement for all handlers guns to have slings on them so you can safely get them out of the way?
Clipper, that's a good point. That's precisely why I added giving the handler the choice option to the poll.
Personally, my gun has a sling and it goes on my shoulder if I am handling my dog in the field. That's the safest method I have for "unhanding" my gun out in the marsh. I find dealing with the gun and handling on a blind in a test to be nothing more than a nuisance. Maybe there should be a requirement for all handlers guns to have slings on them so you can safely get them out of the way?
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Jessy
It would be interesting to know how many handlers have never taken a gun safty course. I personally have watched an 11-12 year old girl handle a master dog (did pretty darn good too), but she did every thing except clean her ear with the gun. IMHO the same rules that apply to handling a popper gun in the field should apply to handling any gun anywhere -- the line included --
Teaching gun safty is not the job of a hunt test!!!! There are gun safty courses available for that. And, we are testing the dogs, not a persons knowlage of guns.
How many times do we see people handle on a mark???? If it is not safe to handle on a blind with a gun in your hands, what makes it safe when handling on a mark???? I don't know about anyone else, but I have a gun rack in my duck blind.
tom
It would be interesting to know how many handlers have never taken a gun safty course. I personally have watched an 11-12 year old girl handle a master dog (did pretty darn good too), but she did every thing except clean her ear with the gun. IMHO the same rules that apply to handling a popper gun in the field should apply to handling any gun anywhere -- the line included --
Teaching gun safty is not the job of a hunt test!!!! There are gun safty courses available for that. And, we are testing the dogs, not a persons knowlage of guns.
How many times do we see people handle on a mark???? If it is not safe to handle on a blind with a gun in your hands, what makes it safe when handling on a mark???? I don't know about anyone else, but I have a gun rack in my duck blind.
tom
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3,234 Posts
My opinion --
HRC is doing it right and AKC should mimic it.
Except in the beginning level, handlers should not only carry guns, but be required to point and shoot them. They should also be required to practice gun safety.
I think is not only the right thing to do for the sport, but also the Second Amendment as well. There are a lot of AKC HT participants that have an unreasonable fear of firearms, who are quite happy holding a stick at the line. Requiring them to shoulder real firearms would require them to overcome their unreason, get out of the sport, or hire a pro.
HRC is doing it right and AKC should mimic it.
Except in the beginning level, handlers should not only carry guns, but be required to point and shoot them. They should also be required to practice gun safety.
I think is not only the right thing to do for the sport, but also the Second Amendment as well. There are a lot of AKC HT participants that have an unreasonable fear of firearms, who are quite happy holding a stick at the line. Requiring them to shoulder real firearms would require them to overcome their unreason, get out of the sport, or hire a pro.
Hey, question for ya Tom....
Are we testing the dawgs? Or the dawg and handler team?
By the way....I don't have a gun rack in my blind....no wait...I don't hunt out of a blind.... :shock:
I agree, it's called a "HUNT" test.
I feel like anybody that sponsors anything with the word "Hunt" in it, that involves shooting by the participants or the organizers, is responsible for gun safety and teaching/reinforcing it to those that need it.
Kurt
Are we testing the dawgs? Or the dawg and handler team?
By the way....I don't have a gun rack in my blind....no wait...I don't hunt out of a blind.... :shock:
I agree, it's called a "HUNT" test.
I feel like anybody that sponsors anything with the word "Hunt" in it, that involves shooting by the participants or the organizers, is responsible for gun safety and teaching/reinforcing it to those that need it.
Kurt
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I always have my .45 in tow at a trial. Shady element there ya know.
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I voted yes. I don't care if it's a real gun or a mockup, but handlers should come to line treating it like it's loaded. On line I think they should have to shoulder for the marks. I've heard that it can be "distracting for the dog". If that's the case then what's being tested? You don't have to hunt or hunt with your dogs to play these games, but they are supposed to simulate a hunt & if the dog isn't steady because your shouldering a gun I'm not sure what the title (or "designation" if you prefer) really means.
I do believe just as strongly that I should be able to run my marks & blind without holding the gun.
As subroc likes to say: "just my novice opinion.
There-now I'm sure I've really jinxed myself for this weekend's test!!
M
I do believe just as strongly that I should be able to run my marks & blind without holding the gun.
As subroc likes to say: "just my novice opinion.
There-now I'm sure I've really jinxed myself for this weekend's test!!
M
My friend with Parkinsons made a "stick gun" for me in order to train. I challenge any of you to stand 20 yards away and tell me if I have a Benelli O/U or a "stick gun" in my hands. The only thing it won't do, besides firing a popper or live shell, is "break down", and he's working on that!!!!
I have no problem with using a "fake gun" at a HT as long as the Judges watch how I or any other handler treats it. By using it we are all assured that NO ONE is gonna get hurt by the handler's ignorance, unless they use it as a club.
Jerry
I have no problem with using a "fake gun" at a HT as long as the Judges watch how I or any other handler treats it. By using it we are all assured that NO ONE is gonna get hurt by the handler's ignorance, unless they use it as a club.
Jerry
G
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·If you don't have a gun, you aren't huntin'! :snipersmile:
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I have as yet to see a senior series or above where a gun added realism. I've never shot a bird at 110 yards, or further.
I think a junior title is meaningless if handling a dog means you can't safely handle a gun - that dog shouldn't be in a blind for safety reasons.
and finally, I think that guns neither add nor detract from 90% of HT scenarios, it's just part of the scenery. A dog will mark off the gun or not - but so long as he marks, he's OK with me.
I think a junior title is meaningless if handling a dog means you can't safely handle a gun - that dog shouldn't be in a blind for safety reasons.
and finally, I think that guns neither add nor detract from 90% of HT scenarios, it's just part of the scenery. A dog will mark off the gun or not - but so long as he marks, he's OK with me.
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I vote we carry a gun and have the handler shoot all the birds. If the handler misses, then they are dropped. After all this is a hunt test, we are testing hunting ability for both the dog and handler team right? How can you judge the relative merits of the hunting team if only one team member gets to have all the fun?
John
John
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3,637 Posts
Jerry-
I don't care if it's a fake gun & that would safer. Folks who run HRC go into it knowing that there is a huge emphasis on gun safety. In AKC there's no need to know the mechanics of shooting, but I think the gun (albeit fake or real) should be treated like a loaded weapon & used to simulate a hunting situation. The dogs don't even need to know how to mark off it-there are plenty of attenton getters (most of the time) in the field, but they should be steady enough to have their handler shoulder & "shoot" at the arc & focus on the field.
BTW-I'm talking hunt tests not field trials. Even a dog who's not the brightest bulb in the package has to know you didn't just hit that bird at 300 yards!! :wink:
M
I don't care if it's a fake gun & that would safer. Folks who run HRC go into it knowing that there is a huge emphasis on gun safety. In AKC there's no need to know the mechanics of shooting, but I think the gun (albeit fake or real) should be treated like a loaded weapon & used to simulate a hunting situation. The dogs don't even need to know how to mark off it-there are plenty of attenton getters (most of the time) in the field, but they should be steady enough to have their handler shoulder & "shoot" at the arc & focus on the field.
BTW-I'm talking hunt tests not field trials. Even a dog who's not the brightest bulb in the package has to know you didn't just hit that bird at 300 yards!! :wink:
M
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It is supposed to simulate a hunting scenario. I feel a gun is part of a hunting scenario. Unless of course it is catch and release. If you don't carry a gun it is just a walk,or a boat ride. Jim
I like to think that we all know that gun safety is of primary importance. Unfortunately, we have NO control over who sends in an entry fee.
As an OVERSTATED opinion, what if John Hinckley walks up to the line, has a live shell in his pocket and loads it? Wouldn't you rather have him handed a "stick gun"???
What one has in their hands takes second place to what the dogs do.
Jerry
As an OVERSTATED opinion, what if John Hinckley walks up to the line, has a live shell in his pocket and loads it? Wouldn't you rather have him handed a "stick gun"???
What one has in their hands takes second place to what the dogs do.
Jerry
Jerry nailed it right here. Would we have to start doing background checks for all who participate in HT???Jerry said:
I am running my first ht later this month (jr). Been around guns for most of the last thirty years.
I would prefer not to deal with the added distraction of a loaded gun bringing a jr dawg up to the line.
I could see doing it for Master tests.
Lefty
YEP!!!!... hunter goes to a field trial, he puts on a white coat and plays by field trial rules... I think if a field trialer goes to a hunt test he/she should put on camo, carry a gun, run out of a boat or pit, and play by hunting rules..
lord, dont put out goose decoys, quack badly on a duck call, throw a duck, and tell me I am at a dove hunt and hand me a 1X6 to shoot at the dove/duck with. It just looks plain stupid and really belittles the sport to any hunter that happens to show up to see their first hunt test.
I do make an exception for the junior hunt tests..i think that handling a gun and holding onto a pup is just too much.
and I do love field trials and appreciate the work those dogs do a lot. I have even unsuccessfully run in a couple and will again.
lord, dont put out goose decoys, quack badly on a duck call, throw a duck, and tell me I am at a dove hunt and hand me a 1X6 to shoot at the dove/duck with. It just looks plain stupid and really belittles the sport to any hunter that happens to show up to see their first hunt test.
I do make an exception for the junior hunt tests..i think that handling a gun and holding onto a pup is just too much.
and I do love field trials and appreciate the work those dogs do a lot. I have even unsuccessfully run in a couple and will again.
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