RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,347 Posts
Similar to a no no drill. 2 or more chairs that bracket the route to blind(s). As the dog gets proficient and comfortable with the idea of running close between them, they can be moved closer together and/or further away from the line. Later add people sitting in the chairs. It's used to get the dog comfortable with the idea of running a blind tight to a visible gun station.-Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Dr. Jack Gwaltney showed us a chair drill with a bumper at the feet of the person sitting in the chair. Then a blind tight to that line at a greater distance on either side of the chair. Once the dog is comfortable going in to the person we ran the longer blinds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
Dr. Jack Gwaltney showed us a chair drill with a bumper at the feet of the person sitting in the chair. Then a blind tight to that line at a greater distance on either side of the chair. Once the dog is comfortable going in to the person we ran the longer blinds.
While that drill is a good one, the drill that Paul describes, is the one that is commonly referred to as "The Chair Drill".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gary M

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,336 Posts
Not a lot of difference in Paul's description and the Dobbs description. It is also in Carroll Cassidy's book of drills building a retriever. All quite similar. On more than one occasion after shooting the live bird in a Land series I have been asked to remain seated at the live bird station with the bird crates and the other chairs and the Clutter. While the land blind skirted the back of my chair and went beyond. It does squirrelify a large number of dogs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,658 Posts
Dr. Jack Gwaltney showed us a chair drill with a bumper at the feet of the person sitting in the chair. Then a blind tight to that line at a greater distance on either side of the chair. Once the dog is comfortable going in to the person we ran the longer blinds.


I tend to see the logic of some things a bit different. I just dont see why you would want to pick up a bumper at the feet of a person at the gun station. To me that is promoting something you DONT want to happen. I routinely run blinds tight to the back of the gun station or under the arc with poison birds etc. but I dont want them picking up a bird there. I sometime also will handle the dog on the return from the blind boxing them around the gun station.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,159 Posts
I tend to see the logic of some things a bit different. I just dont see why you would want to pick up a bumper at the feet of a person at the gun station. To me that is promoting something you DONT want to happen. I routinely run blinds tight to the back of the gun station or under the arc with poison birds etc. but I dont want them picking up a bird there. I sometime also will handle the dog on the return from the blind boxing them around the gun station.
I agree with your reasoning pertaining to not wanting to teach a dog that finding a bird at the gun station is a real possibility.
Unfortunately some judges seemingly don't care or understand; and will still set up blinds with the bird at the gunners feet, You can tell the dogs that have never done it as they will struggle BADLY at the end of the blind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,658 Posts
I agree with your reasoning pertaining to not wanting to teach a dog that finding a bird at the gun station is a real possibility.
Unfortunately some judges seemingly don't care or understand; and will still set up blinds with the bird at the gunners feet, You can tell the dogs that have never done it as they will struggle BADLY at the end of the blind.

I train a lot by myself with wingers and must pay attention to avoid young dogs or puppies from taking a bird out of a winger. Just last week I had a bird hang up in a winger and plop inches in front of it. Was running my very experienced 7 yr old so I sent him. He would not pick it up even after handling him all around it. Never seen a judge do that and hope I never do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,730 Posts
I just dont see why you would want to pick up a bumper at the feet of a person at the gun station.
Neither do I but that was a "thing" for land blinds a couple years ago at a few trials. At least that is what I heard from one, maybe two people. Could be the complainers just failed a land blind that was 10 yards from a guy in a chair, I don't know.

We do a drill occasionally with a couple under the arc and behind the gun blinds. The last bird is a blind in front of the thrower. I like it to be 10-15 feet in front. It just makes the dog comfortable running directly at a gun, we do it once a week at most.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I didn't see the logic of this either, but the most important thing I have learned in the past three years is I don't know enough about training except to sit back and listen. Oh, and to ask questions, many questions.:unsure:

I have hunted for decades, though, so I will say if there is a dead bird at my feet, I am still young enough (just barely) to bend over and pick it up myself. Less disturbing of cover that way.

I tend to see the logic of some things a bit different. I just dont see why you would want to pick up a bumper at the feet of a person at the gun station. To me that is promoting something you DONT want to happen. I routinely run blinds tight to the back of the gun station or under the arc with poison birds etc. but I dont want them picking up a bird there. I sometime also will handle the dog on the return from the blind boxing them around the gun station.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
On more than one occasion after shooting the live bird in a Land series I have been asked to remain seated at the live bird station with the bird crates and the other chairs and the Clutter. While the land blind skirted the back of my chair and went beyond. It does squirrelify a large number of dogs.
I am stealing this squirrelify comment.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,949 Posts
It has been at least 15 years ago that I recall running 2-3 Amat blinds with the bird(usually a hen pheasant) at the feet of the exposed blind planter. This sort of trick is no longer "in vogue" in trials but it can serve a purpose in training. As Zach described in Jack Gwaltney's drill the bird at the feet of a person is used a attract the dog towards the person counter acting most dog's natural tendency to flare the person in the chair. It is the first step, designed to give the dog a comfort level near the person(with immediate reward) so as to better line the dog to blinds much deeper than the chair without needing to handle towards the chair.

True "chair drills" for the OP can be very helpful in teaching the dog to focus, teaching the handler how to read the dog's focus, and in de-cheating a dog. Giving the dog a corridor to look down helps many dogs hold their head and eyes still. These "boundaries" result in a better initial line just like training with the bird at the feet.
JMO
Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,336 Posts
Neither do I but that was a "thing" for land blinds a couple years ago at a few trials. At least that is what I heard from one, maybe two people. Could be the complainers just failed a land blind that was 10 yards from a guy in a chair, I don't know.
I have been the Feller in the chair on a couple of occasions that the line to the blind wa's 6 -8 feet behind my chair. So close the dog could have gone in front of me and still been in the corridor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,658 Posts
It has been at least 15 years ago that I recall running 2-3 Amat blinds with the bird(usually a hen pheasant) at the feet of the exposed blind planter. This sort of trick is no longer "in vogue" in trials but it can serve a purpose in training. As Zach described in Jack Gwaltney's drill the bird at the feet of a person is used a attract the dog towards the person counter acting most dog's natural tendency to flare the person in the chair. It is the first step, designed to give the dog a comfort level near the person(with immediate reward) so as to better line the dog to blinds much deeper than the chair without needing to handle towards the chair.

True "chair drills" for the OP can be very helpful in teaching the dog to focus, teaching the handler how to read the dog's focus, and in de-cheating a dog.
Giving the dog a corridor to look down helps many dogs hold their head and eyes still. These "boundaries" result in a better initial line just like training with the bird at the feet.
JMO

Tim

People talk about contrary marks but what about contrary training? To me that is what the chair drill as described is. I teach the dog these concepts waaay before running cold blinds while doing pattern blinds then adding marks in between also teaching to run behind the the gun under the arc and even poison birds. Once the dog has learned these concepts I simply practice them in real time training setups. I dont do many drills once the dog is through the learning stage.
I dont like the idea of giving the dog a corridor. Once a dog is doing cold blinds I do not want my dogs looking for a corridor through cover or terrain. At that point it is go where sent, stop on the whistle and take the cast that was given.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,658 Posts
85487



I do this lining drill on occasion. In fact doing it now because of weather and lack of ground to do much else this time of year with my older dogs. I have 3 bumpers at each pile. Piles are actually marked using white electric fence posts with about an 8 inch square piece of cardboard painted black attached to them because everything is white here and I wont see dirt for about 2 more months. What I get most out of this developing an good understanding between me and the dog. Helps me to read where the dog is looking and helps the dog read where I want them to go and go as sent.
You can adjust this to the dog and your skill levels making it tighter, more open, shorter, longer etc..
I have done this in the summer using white buckets on a flat mowed field with front row of bumpers at 80 yds and back row at 125 threading them through two piles 10 to 15 yds apart at that distance can be challenging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,722 Posts
Neither do I but that was a "thing" for land blinds a couple years ago at a few trials. At least that is what I heard from one, maybe two people. Could be the complainers just failed a land blind that was 10 yards from a guy in a chair, I don't know.

We do a drill occasionally with a couple under the arc and behind the gun blinds. The last bird is a blind in front of the thrower. I like it to be 10-15 feet in front. It just makes the dog comfortable running directly at a gun, we do it once a week at most.
Judges were running those blinds in the midwest I know @ 5 years ago and my previous dog could never get good enough to get through the LB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,730 Posts
Judges were running those blinds in the midwest I know @ 5 years ago and my previous dog could never get good enough to get through the LB.
This is the drill I referred to. If it has a name I don't know what it is. We very very rarely use any pressure with this drill.
Another variation is having two throwers (or a thrower and a sick man) about 5-10 yards apart with a long blind up the middle.

85489
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top