[rbr]

This topic came up on the other board and occasionally here.
I firmly believe choke chains should be a thing of the past.

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

I use pinch collars exclusively. I have to switch to the choke chain when I am getting ready for obedience competition, because AKC doesn't allow prong collars. It's an image thing, which I dearly wish AKC would get over!

Lisa

 

[jeff t.]

I use both depending on the dog.

Nothing but a buckle collar until they are at least 6 months old.

Techique is everything with both types of collars.

If the dog is hyper reactive...a pinch collar can make things worse.

On the other hand, in the OB classes we teach at our local kennel club, sometimes we encounter slightly built handlers with big boisterous dogs...in those cases, a pinch collar is very helpful..but it has to fit correctly and the technique has to be demonstrated....not something that can be done online IMO.

One can also turn the collar inside out (prongs out), for softer, more sensitive dogs.

I would never, ever use a pinch on a 16 week old baby puppy.

 

[DL]

I've never tried the pinch collar. Can you let the dog run with it on with a short lead?

 

[FOM]

I use choke chains and pinch collars. They are just another tool in the big scheme of things. Just like any training tool, proper understanding on how to utilize the given tool should be accomplished before just slapping it into use!

FOM

 

[Nicki White]

When I teach obedience at our local community college, from the "basic" level on up, we require either choke or prong collars to be used--trainer's choice. Only buckle collars for the puppies. I can tell you from experience using both choke chains and prong collars, the prong are MUCH more humane (although they look worse). But EITHER can do some serious damage to a dog if used incorrectly.

--Nicki

 

[rbr]

Several recent studies have found serious long term damage
by choke chains and almost none by pinch collars.

Ask yourself this ?
How often do you here a pup hacking after using a pinch?
A choke?


Bert

 

[FOM]

bert,

None, zero, zilch. Proper application of a choke chain is important. Its a quick snap, not a pull. Its also an upward movement, not a backwards movement. Its a quick pop, not a long drawn out pull. Application of any training tool is only as affective as the person using it!!

FOM

 

[Guest]

Jeff, can you try and explain it? I'm a newbie and would like to know. I trained my current dog with a pinch (not really knowing how to properly use it) and just had to wing it. It worked very well and I can't imagine going back, but knowing more about it would greatly help on the next one.

Thanks

One of the many lurkers.

 

[rbr]

bert,

None, zero, zilch. Proper application of a choke chain is important. Its a quick snap, not a pull. Its also an upward movement, not a backwards movement. Its a quick pop, not a long drawn out pull. Application of any training tool is only as affective as the person using it!!

FOM

Lainee, I agree that it is possable to use it safely but most don't.
People allow the dog to pull against the chain resulting in damaged
windpipes and trachia. The potential for long term injury IMO
outways it's value as an effective tool. Also in teaching a dog to
heel I can accomplish in 1 day with a pinch what takes a week
with a choke chain.

JMO , not a critisism.

Bert

 

[Emily Faith]

I like to start with a choke chain and, if I find I am having to continually apply a lot of force on that type of collar, I switch to a pinch. I switch back to a choke later though. I think a lot of young dogs get used to having those prongs there and when they aren't there, they think it's a signal that they can behave like a wild indian.

 

[rbr]

I like to start with a choke chain and, if I find I am having to continually apply a lot of force on that type of collar, I switch to a pinch. I switch back to a choke later though. I think a lot of young dogs get used to having those prongs there and when they aren't there, they think it's a signal that they can behave like a wild indian.

By that time they are CCd and niether is neccesary.

Bert

 

[FOM]

bert,

I agree that it is possable to use it safely but most don't.

That's my point. Its just like with e-collars. Granted e-collars do not tend to cause physical harm like a choke chain do, I would say more emotional truama is caused with improper use. So do we get rid of them as effective tools? No. Train the trainer. Spend the little extra money to go to a class, work with a Pro, its an investment worth making.

The choosen tool is only as effective as the trainer utilizing it!! It doesn't matter if its a choke chain, heeling stick, my hands, treats, praise, voice tone and even e-collars! Each and every one of the "tools" I listed can cause some form of damage to a dog if not properly used.

Lainee, Flash and Bullet

 

[Steve Shaver]

A lot of pups will pull and pull on a choke collar no matter how much it makes them choke and gag.
I think it has a lot to do with the mechanics of the different collars. The suggestion to turn the pinch collar inside out on the other thread is a good one, I might try that.

 

[Emily Faith]

"By that time they are CCd and niether is neccesary"

In training that is generally true, but on the road, we often need to have the dog on lead and I wouldn't use a pinch collar for that (airing, going in and out of the vet and hotels, etc.). I like for them to learn young that the regular choke collar isn't something to pull against, and if I just use it in public and use the pinch any other time, they don't get the message. I get enough derogatory comments from people if the dog has on a choke collar, much less a pinch collar, when I am in public with a dog on lead. Actually, I recently bought one of those "gentle leaders" that looks like a cross between a muzzle and a horse harness for that very reason. It is a hassle to take on and off though, and I can get one big choke chain that I can use for all the dogs if I have to air them on lead.

 

[Steve Shaver]

Good point Emily. Also most poeple use them on the way to the line and in the holding blinds. I use the slip lead that works the same as a choke collar.

 

[Retrievrfevr]

I much prefer the prong for myself and those I teach. I agree that all tools can be ineffective or harmful if used incorrectly but...if the propensity is there for it to be widely misused or ineffective as is the case I find with most of the pet owning population, than it is not a tool to be casually used, (like an e-collar) IMHO.

I also use prongs on pups, mine and the pet owning public as young as 3 months. Think they are far less harmful to young traches than a choke or buckle and simply require finger tip control in most cases.

For some dogs I have found they need something more than a slip or buckle but the prong is too intense. I will have 2-4 prongs turned in on the back outer side of the neck, and the rest facing out.

I do think people can become dependant on the prong rather than using it as a tool to teach the dog to be responsive and not pull.

I've never tried the pinch collar. Can you let the dog run with it on with a short lead?

Do you mean loose dragging a leash or while joggig?

 

[DL]

loose dragging a lead

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

I'd put a short tab on it. In fact put one on your pinch collar and one on your e-collar. That gives you something to control the dog with and get the dog to turn with you, etc. without having to holler or nick or anything.

Lisa

 

[Retrievrfevr]

Yea, big fan of tabs. I also use a longer tab(hitting the dog on the shoulder or about elbow length) too but usually made of light rope and dependent on cover I am in. Have let dogs drag a longer light line with a prong on as well but again, dependent on cover.

Probably don't need to with this crowd but old habits are hard to break and I still see people come to classes with tags on their metal slip collars so....remember NOT to leave training collars such as prongs or slips on dogs while unattended.