"By that time they are CCd and niether is neccesary"
In training that is generally true, but on the road, we often need to have the dog on lead and I wouldn't use a pinch collar for that (airing, going in and out of the vet and hotels, etc.). I like for them to learn young that the regular choke collar isn't something to pull against, and if I just use it in public and use the pinch any other time, they don't get the message. I get enough derogatory comments from people if the dog has on a choke collar, much less a pinch collar, when I am in public with a dog on lead. Actually, I recently bought one of those "gentle leaders" that looks like a cross between a muzzle and a horse harness for that very reason. It is a hassle to take on and off though, and I can get one big choke chain that I can use for all the dogs if I have to air them on lead.