[Tim Carrion]

Never say never and never say always. The e-collar has its uses as the does the "old fashion" way. Which by the way preceeded Nike.
I use both. On some dogs you sometimes have to make the correction personal.
My current dog went thru a short period of not wanting to pick up "raunchy birds" at the end of water blind. With an e- collar on he would go the blind and sit at the bird and hold his head up and I could say fetch & nik all day with any level and he would just sit there. A few trips around the pond for the personal touch and problem solved.