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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read through several posts on giving corrections without an e-collar and most relied on running out to the dog to give a correction. But what do you do when the dog runs away from you? Mainly I want to prevent creating the habit of bolting when the dog knows a corrections is coming. Because, let's face it, I can't catch a dog who really wants to outrun me. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

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Who says you have to run to correct the dog ? I used to when I was younger and quite a bit faster....but running at the dog only exacerbates the situation and your mood


WALK, cool off...you aren't going there to brutalize the dog, you are going to make a correction, it can vary from a simple ear pinch, a grab of the snout,a tap from a heeling stick or just an evil stinkeye stare directly into the dog, along with a stern forceful command...

if your dog is bolting from the area maybe your form of correction may need to be addressed
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This is a 5 1/2 month old CLM. No bolting problem with him at this point. Bolting problem occurred with a previous CLM, who was also soft and sensitive. Corrections provided to that dog were typically a tap with heeling stick if he was beside me or if at a distance, usually snatching up by the collar and replacing at the desired position. Ended up resorting to an e-collar with that dog to provide corrections at a distance; which he responded to well. This dog was typically very easy to train by just talking more sternly, but every now and then he would ignore a command and needed correction. He bolted at other times as well from other things that frightened him; he was kinda weird. I want to prevent the bolting problem created with the previous dog and try not to use the e-collar.
 

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This is a 5 1/2 month old CLM. No bolting problem with him at this point. Bolting problem occurred with a previous CLM, who was also soft and sensitive. Corrections provided to that dog were typically a tap with heeling stick if he was beside me or if at a distance, usually snatching up by the collar and replacing at the desired position. Ended up resorting to an e-collar with that dog to provide corrections at a distance; which he responded to well. This dog was typically very easy to train by just talking more sternly, but every now and then he would ignore a command and needed correction. He bolted at other times as well from other things that frightened him; he was kinda weird. I want to prevent the bolting problem created with the previous dog and try not to use the e-collar.

a couple of questions

1. when you returned the dog to the area of the infraction, did you punish the dog for non compliance of the command (blowing off your whistle) or for taking an "back cast" instead of an "over" or does the dog not understand what he is supposed to do when a certain command is given

2. once you put the dog back at the area of the refusal, did you run the dog from that spot or did you return to the original line


bolting is avoidance, you may have created the problem...
 
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a couple of questions

1. when you returned the dog to the area of the infraction, did you punish the dog for non compliance of the command (blowing off your whistle) or for taking an "back cast" instead of an "over" or does the dog not understand what he is supposed to do when a certain command is given

2. once you put the dog back at the area of the refusal, did you run the dog from that spot or did you return to the original line


bolting is avoidance, you may have created the problem...
Bon,

Get a grip. This is a puppy. How does returning them to the area of the infraction help?

To the OP, it's either rope or a collar. No other effective options. (Oh wait, I'm sure someone will offer clicker training as a solution but that is called training and not a way to enforce behavior.)
 

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Maybe you ought to think through an e collar correction vs. "snatching up" or a "stern voice".

Maybe your previous dog responded because it was a more timely and easier correction to understand.

He bolted from other things but not the e collar and according to you was very nervous and soft. What does that tell you?

I know what it tells me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
a couple of questions

1. when you returned the dog to the area of the infraction, did you punish the dog for non compliance of the command (blowing off your whistle) or for taking an "back cast" instead of an "over" or does the dog not understand what he is supposed to do when a certain command is given

2. once you put the dog back at the area of the refusal, did you run the dog from that spot or did you return to the original line


bolting is avoidance, you may have created the problem...
Well we are not to that point with this pup. And this typically occurred with the previous dog when asking for a sit or stay. So he was retrieved from wherever he went if he would not return and put back in the place I asked for a sit/stay.
Yes, I'm aware that I likely caused the bolting, that's why I'm asking about how to better provide corrections.
So I'm wanting to know how to provide effective corrections without an e- collar (or any sort of gun) when the dog is not beside you. Some things cannot be done while the dog is directly beside you, especially when training alone.
 

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I'm probably way off, but shouldn't bolting be dealt with when doing formal obedience with a rope and pinch collar? ( debolting) especially if you don't plan on using a collar in your training ? If its not it will appear in the field,so now you have created a hole in training and need to back up to fix the hole in the yard, because it seems like a horrible habit once the dog sees it as an option in the field. I'm asking more than advising.
 

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I'm probably way off, but shouldn't bolting be dealt with when doing formal obedience with a rope and pinch collar? ( debolting) especially if you don't plan on using a collar in your training ? If its not it will appear in the field,so now you have created a hole in training and need to back up to fix the hole in the yard, because it seems like a horrible habit once the dog sees it as an option in the field. I'm asking more than advising.
What you are asking is actually pretty good advising IMHO
 

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How about going back a few steps and 'teaching' the dog, rather than 'correcting' it? It's only 5 months old. It seems terribly young to have to start correcting it. Can you, hand on heart, say that the pup knows what you are expecting of it?

I realise a lot more 'forcing' (pinching/punishing etc) goes on in USA, but for the very basics it is quite possible to teach a dog with kindness, and build up gradually so you don't need to correct at such a young age.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Think there still might be some confusion about the dog I am asking about. The 5 month old is in obedience training and does of course do retriever training- not expected to honor or be steady at this point. I do not want to create a bolting problem with him and do not currently have one. I want to prevent creating one. A different dog had a bolting problem. To help with that, we did go back and do more obedience and CC with e- collar; problem much improved. I do not want to have to resort to an e-collar with new, 5 month old, pup.

So ignore previous dog at this point. I want to plan ahead and learn how to provide efficient corrections when dog is at a distance in the future with this pup without using an e-collar. What do you do when the dog refuses a command at a distance- like a cast or sit- when you cannot use an e-collar to give an immediate correction? How do you deal with timing the correction, as poor timing can confuse the dog?
 

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What do you do when the dog refuses a command at a distance- like a cast or sit- when you cannot use an e-collar to give an immediate correction? How do you deal with timing the correction, as poor timing can confuse the dog?
There's not much you can do that's timed correctly sans breaking the dogs momentum constantly using attrition to eventually get what you want.

I still fail to understand why you're willing to walk out and yoke up on your dog, or hit him with a stick, when a simple, well timed nick with the e-collar is infinitely more effective?

Why do you say "resort" to the e-collar? It is, in fact the gentlest, best timed tool you have in your box so why would you do anything else?

Personally I would rather take a nic than having my neck yanked around or my butt hit with a fiberglass stick. I don't know about you, or your dog.
 

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I still fail to understand why you're willing to walk out and yoke up on your dog, or hit him with a stick, when a simple, well timed nick with the e-collar is infinitely more effective?

Why do you say "resort" to the e-collar? It is, in fact the gentlest, best timed tool you have in your box so why would you do anything else?
I agree. When used properly, it is one of the best, if not the best tools a trainer has.
 

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But you DO have to 'properly' collar condition the dog before you start 'nicking' and 'correcting'.

It doesn't sound like the OP's last dog got any form of correction - correctly. Likely the result of trying to 'test' the dog before the 'training' warranted the test.

Going from teach to test is not good and seemingly (and unfortunately) too common.
 

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But you DO have to 'properly' collar condition the dog before you start 'nicking' and 'correcting'.

It doesn't sound like the OP's last dog got any form of correction - correctly. Likely the result of trying to 'test' the dog before the 'training' warranted the test.

Going from teach to test is not good and seemingly (and unfortunately) too common.
Very true. That's why I said used properly....which includes CC
 

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Very true. That's why I said used properly....which includes CC

Yea - I know - sorry how that read. ;) Not to mention it should be EXTREMELY important to the trainer to learn from the 'past dog' mistakes and not ignore them or...have posters ignore them. Also can't blame or be afraid of an e-collar whether you choose to collar train or go Amish. My Amish buddies have really big, scarey, hands - that I can tell ya.

Just think as some others are eluding to...the OP needs to address the why's and not the how's. It just sounds like there's a disconnect between understanding how to teach/train/test and as importantly - when to apply pressure and for the right (and fair) reasons.
 

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an evil stinkeye stare directly into the dog
I do that...the problem is he gives one back to me:D
 
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