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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been thinking about this a lot. And in fairness, I have some questions that can, at least in my eyes, lend some credibility to the silver/gray Lab concept.

So, in the interest of proving that silver breeders really are concerned about producing more than just the gray color, I will give my respect to those who can do all of the following, most of which are standard practice for Lab breeders of any color:

1. Proof of the following current health clearances on your current breeding stock: Hips, elbows, CERF, PRA, CNM and EIC

2. Proof of at least hips, elbows and CERF on the preceeding ONE generation/parents of your current breeding stock

3. Hunt test titles in (pick any one of the three) AKC, UKC or NAHRA or field trial points on at least one dog you're currently using for breeding. Or give me another venue your dogs are titled in.

4. Proof that there is none of the following blood in any generation of your breeding stock: Crist Culo, Kellogg(the newer lines, not the nice older ones), or Beavercreek.


That will convince me, and my hat will be off to you as a responsible breeder. Looking forward to the responses.
 

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I think I hear crickets but I am right there with you sharon
 

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If it is true that the AKC will not recognize the silver even though people market them as AKC silver labs then you are either asking an irrelevant question or you need to consider the standards for the organizations that do register them. In my quick google search it seems there is a proper name for these dogs as a Labmaraner or Weimador with the following registries:
ACHC (American Canine Hybrid Club)
DDKC (Designer Dogs Kennel Club)
DRA (Dog Registry of America)
IDCR (International Designer Canine Registry)
DBR (Designer Breed Registry)

Maybe you meant to say "AKC" Silver Labs but as I stated above, the AKC does not register silver labs. I would just like to know what the official name and registry is as I think this would be the best way to give a fact based opinion to someone when they ask, as I don't see the designer dog thing going away anytime soon.
 

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So, Sharon, should I read this to mean that people who breed confirmation labs aren't responsible breeders? No field title = irresponsible?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Darrin, the reason I left out show titles is that the color is a disqualification and the silvers aren't allowed to show in AKC shows so those titles aren't relevant to my query. No disrespect to show folks intended. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The AKC allows them to be registered as chocolate, which many silver breeders do in order to lend credibility. But let's say they aren't registered with AKC and rather are with one of the fake registries listed in your post. The health clearances and pedigrees should still be in order, and they can compete in hunt tests in both AKC and UKC.



If it is true that the AKC will not recognize the silver even though people market them as AKC silver labs then you are either asking an irrelevant question or you need to consider the standards for the organizations that do register them. In my quick google search it seems there is a proper name for these dogs as a Labmaraner or Weimador with the following registries:
ACHC (American Canine Hybrid Club)
DDKC (Designer Dogs Kennel Club)
DRA (Dog Registry of America)
IDCR (International Designer Canine Registry)
DBR (Designer Breed Registry)

Maybe you meant to say "AKC" Silver Labs but as I stated above, the AKC does not register silver labs. I would just like to know what the official name and registry is as I think this would be the best way to give a fact based opinion to someone when they ask, as I don't see the designer dog thing going away anytime soon.
 

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Hadn't thought about the color disqualifying them Sharon, great point. I'm training one of these guys right now. Very large, terrible conformation and scared to the point of borderline aggression. Oh and cross eyed as well. We are going to straighten him out but it's a shame and I can't help but wonder if breeding for color only is what caused it.
 

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I've been thinking about this a lot. And in fairness, I have some questions that can, at least in my eyes, lend some credibility to the silver/gray Lab concept.

So, in the interest of proving that silver breeders really are concerned about producing more than just the gray color, I will give my respect to those who can do all of the following, most of which are standard practice for Lab breeders of any color:

1. Proof of the following current health clearances on your current breeding stock: Hips, elbows, CERF, PRA, CNM and EIC

2. Proof of at least hips, elbows and CERF on the preceeding ONE generation/parents of your current breeding stock

3. Hunt test titles in (pick any one of the three) AKC, UKC or NAHRA or field trial points on at least one dog you're currently using for breeding. Or give me another venue your dogs are titled in.

4. Proof that there is none of the following blood in any generation of your breeding stock: Crist Culo, Kellogg, or Beavercreek.


That will convince me, and my hat will be off to you as a responsible breeder. Looking forward to the responses.
Is it irresponsible for a person to breed two hunting dogs that do not run tests/trials?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Is it irresponsible for a person to breed two hunting dogs that do not run tests/trials?
That's a good question, and thanks for bringing it up. In a serious breeding program, there needs to be some sort of concrete proof of trainability and talent besides "I said so". However, if there are titles in the pedigrees behind the two dogs, I have no problem with it.
 

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I can't help but wonder if breeding for color only is what caused it.
That was what I was getting at with the thread I started about older silver labs. It seems bad gene's and poor breeding standards have dealt the silver variety strange health anomally's and a short life expectancy.
 

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What is the issue with Kellogg being in the lineage? Not pot-stirring, just curious as one of my dogs has a Kellogg mother (or grandmother). For the record my dogs are the recognized inferior color......Chocolate....HA
 

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The AKC allows them to be registered as chocolate,......
The AKC doesn't allow them to register them as Silver.

That's not the same thing as allowing them to register them as Chocolate.
The American Kennel Club is the Official Registry of the Labrador Retriever Club. Which is the Parent Club for the Labrador Retriever breed.

This is what the LRC says about Silver Labs. http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_detail_news.php?nid=3

So, as far as the AKC's failure to take action to prevent the practice of registering Silver as Chocolate? Well, it's kind of like don't ask don't tell.

Just because the practice isn't prosecuted, doesn't mean that it's allowed. It's not.
 

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The AKC allows them to be registered as chocolate,
I got confused reading the other thread on this so I just figured I would clear it up for people that are slow like me..... When you have a liter of pups and your going to register the pups, the PERSON WHO HAS THE LITER filsl out the paperwork saying whether it is chocolate, yellow, or black. Their is no represenative from AKC that comes to your house and says yeah these pups are all chocolate or black or yellow. It's a trust system based on integrity basically. If you know America these days integrity is getting harder and harder to find. In the cases where people are selling you an AKC registered silver lab, most of the time they'll say it has to be registered as chocolate. Some will even go as far as saying silver will be a recognized color in 2 years just as a selling point. If you go through the paperwork akc gives you to register a dog it asks specifics like that color or your dog, does it have any miscolored spots, and if I remember right it asks you the eye and nose color( Don't hold me against that)! Just figured I would clear things up for the slower folks and Arkansans'.
 

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If you go through the paperwork akc gives you to register a dog it asks specifics like that color or your dog, does it have any miscolored spots, and if I remember right it asks you the eye and nose color( Don't hold me against that)! Just figured I would clear things up for the slower folks and Arkansans'.
UH? not on any papers that I remember
 

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Just for fun I looked up three "silver" dogs, they are advertised as such. One even has had a litter with the ad stating OFA and EIC...false advertising as far as I can tell.

Of the three, one has good hips, and his sire has good hips, other wise the pedigree is very incomplete.
No results for CNM.
Can't really look up EIC results.
No CERF results.

I used registration numbers and full names and various parts of the name to ensure a full search.

Then I looked at the top searches for silver labs/retrievers - looked at the litter advertisements, looked up health clearances - I gave up....
 

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Just the thought that people are able to register these dogs makes me want to throw up :(
 

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The earlier post on silver labs got me curious. I'll admit I did a search for silver lab breeders, to see if I could find any out there with any health clearances. I looked at the first 6 that were listed. One of the six claimed to have EIC and CNM clear dogs. I did not try to verify. No other health clearances of any sort, or on any of the other sites. I gave up.
 

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It doesn't matter if it's a dog or a horse: a lab, a poodle, or a Quarter Horse... if I were purchasing one and the breeder told me "we're filling out the papers on this silver animal and calling it chocolate because..... (insert x, y, or z explanation here)" I drop it like a hot potato. It's patently untrue. What makes people think this is the least bit ethical?!
 

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Found this on breeders website. What caught my attention was that not only are they registered as chocolate but also BLACK!

"Lighting plays a big factor on how the color is seen. Artificial lighting for a dilute lab of silver makes them look light sledge or mousy brown, and a charcoal lab will look a very smokey black. For this reason, The AKC back in 1987 after very extensive parental lineage dna research came to the conclusion that there was no reason what so ever to doubt that Dilute labs are indeed purebred Labrador Retrievers but because of the breed standard color guidelines set forth, they fall into the range of color variations thus have no need for their own color placement in AKC. Dilute Charcoal labs are registered as black and Dilute Silver labs are registered as Chocolate."
 
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