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Discussion Starter #1
i have noticed alot of the creek robber pups ive been seeing are popping one or bolth of their cruciats (2 in my club alone) is this just a coincidance or has anyone else been seeing the same thing
 

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I think it's happening. My Creek Robber pup has had a TPLO.
 

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Creek Robber has had both his done. At least one littermate that I know of has had both of his done. We know at least 2 dogs from RTF sired by Auggie that have had theirs done. You figure do the math :)

Kris
 

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Auggie's littermate had double acl, his sire and 1 uncle on bitch side had double acl repairs.
Chance you take with this bloodline.
 

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I think cruciates are the next serious thing to look at in pedigrees. An expensive thing to repair. I've heard of derby dogs with problems...

John Lash
 

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statistically A LOT more money is spent on torn ACL's than displastic hips....

Juli
 

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In Auggie's defense, I have had 5 litters of Auggie pups since 2004 and haven't had any reports of ACL problems in any of these offspring. One of them got a second in an Amateur last weekend!

Vikki
 

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+ does anyone realize that he has sired over 70+ litters .
Sue
 

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That's what I was thinking Sue. Plus this dog has been running trials for many years - that is a lot of wear and tear.
 

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That's what I was thinking Sue. Plus this dog has been running trials for many years - that is a lot of wear and tear.
NAFTCH FC AFC He's Czar Nicholas is 13 years old. To the best of my knowledge he was campaigned for 10 years without any time off for injuries. The sound ones are out there, but they are sure getting harder to find. Especially since many of the popular sires have blown ACLs during their careers.
 

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One dog with a blown knee is no big deal. A dog with blown knees who has littermates with blown knees, both sire and dam with blown knees and lots of offspring with blown knees makes me just a wee bit suspicious. But who cares as long as they win, right?
 

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One dog with a blown knee is no big deal. A dog with blown knees who has littermates with blown knees, both sire and dam with blown knees and lots of offspring with blown knees makes me just a wee bit suspicious. But who cares as long as they win, right?
and you can breed them;-) unlike a dog with hip displaysia (well, you could breed that dog too, and perhaps some people would buy pups....but, the point being.....)

Juli
 

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Maybe we need to find a genetic marker for it and casuse another panic.
 

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Or maybe we should look for trends and make wise breeding decisions accordingly. There's no perfect dog out there, but if I chose to breed a litter, I'm going to take health and soundness into consideration just as much as marking talent.
If I breed my HRCH MH bitch, my market is not top-end FT people. It's hunt test folks and hunters. They can be very successful with a pup that doesn't have the level of talent to consistently place in AA stakes, but I don't want to knowingly sell them a pup that is LIKELY to require $5-7K in knee surgery down the road.
I would much more likely breed my clear bitch to a CNM or EIC carrier than to a dog that comes from lines that have a very high incedence of blown cruciate ligaments. The fact that some pups will likely be carriers of EIC or CNM in no way affects their ability to be great HT dogs or hunting companions. Lack of soundness is another issue altogether. One man's opinion.
 

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I would much more likely breed my clear bitch to a CNM or EIC carrier than to a dog that comes from lines that have a very high incedence of blown cruciate ligaments. The fact that some pups will likely be carriers of EIC or CNM in no way affects their ability to be great HT dogs or hunting companions. Lack of soundness is another issue altogether. One man's opinion.
Make that two!!
 

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and three.....(DM, chessie perspective....)

Juli
 
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