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I went back to a post from 2012 I started regarding the, Next to stud, and saw names mentioned like Tubb, Moses, Slider, etc. I'd like to hear from others, what are the young unknown or untitled dogs out there that are destined to be future stars. The two that I'm banking on are below. I've seen Blue run, and he is the real deal. Won his last 5 derbies and 3 all-age wins in 2019 as a three year old. I have not seen Lonzo, but 7 finishes in 6 trials with a win at three years old is crazy strong.

AFC Rimfires Once Inna Blue Moon (Blue)
Wood River’s Perfect Pass (Lonzo)
 
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Bubba I think I commented on that particular thread mentioning a very young untitled chocolate factored dog that had just placed 2nd in his very first Qualifying. He would go on to become FC AFC Glenhoma's El Chupacabra "Chupa".

Next dog to bet on is FC AFC Kirkwoods Ace of a Higher Grade "Deacon" I know he won an Open as a two year old and believe he FC titled as a two year old as well. Was a National Open Finalist as a three year old.
 

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Have watched Deacon and Lonzo in person. They are the real deal. Saw Deacon get his FC in Niland. Floyd is another one to watch. Last year won the derby and open the same weekend. FC before 3 years old.

Jeff
 

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Kenny Trott/Marcy Wright have an impressive black derby dog on their truck named The Devils Right Hand. I watched him run a couple months ago and he's really, really nice.
 

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Some Awesome Pedigree's in these 3 dogs.

Really like Deacons bottom side. Hopefully they pass along some their great traits!!!
 

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Kenny Trott/Marcy Wright have an impressive black derby dog on their truck named The Devils Right Hand. I watched him run a couple months ago and he's really, really nice.
While I do not question your evaluation or the dog’s potential I could give you a lengthy list of impressive Derby dogs whose potential greatness ended when they had to do blinds and complicated marks in competition.
 

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While I do not question your evaluation or the dog’s potential I could give you a lengthy list of impressive Derby dogs whose potential greatness ended when they had to do blinds and complicated marks in competition.
Ha, that is true.
 

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EdA I've always wondered about what you pointed out. The purpose of the derby stake is to test the natural abilities of retrievers, marking, scenting, courage, style, memory etc.. When a dog ages out of the derby stake, trained abilities come into play. To be successful after the derby, a dog must posses those superior natural abilities that led to success in the derby, but must also acquire trained abilities can do blinds and more complicated multiple marks. In my admitted limited experience and knowledge, the truly outstanding derby dogs I've seen fail after their derby careers, have not failed because of some flaw in the dog, or some unknown genetic trait. Instead their lack of success in major stakes was because of inferior training, or a lack of knowledge and experience necessary to complete the work needed to get a dog titled. I'd be interested in your comments about the dogs that had outstanding derby careers and failed after the derby in terms of the training expertise they were exposed to after the derby.
 

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EdA I've always wondered about what you pointed out. The purpose of the derby stake is to test the natural abilities of retrievers, marking, scenting, courage, style, memory etc.. When a dog ages out of the derby stake, trained abilities come into play. To be successful after the derby, a dog must posses those superior natural abilities that led to success in the derby, but must also acquire trained abilities can do blinds and more complicated multiple marks. In my admitted limited experience and knowledge, the truly outstanding derby dogs I've seen fail after their derby careers, have not failed because of some flaw in the dog, or some unknown genetic trait. Instead their lack of success in major stakes was because of inferior training, or a lack of knowledge and experience necessary to complete the work needed to get a dog titled. I'd be interested in your comments about the dogs that had outstanding derby careers and failed after the derby in terms of the training expertise they were exposed to after the derby.
I don’t like to generalize and there are many examples of highly successful Derby dogs who went on to have successful all age careers. Recent examples that come to mind Bullet, Ammo, Luke with no intent to acknowledge others those were just a few that came to mind. I suspect statistical examination would reveal quite a few who were not successful. Some of that might relate to the temperament of the individual dogs, those really good markers that are confident and self reliant who readily succumb to handler intervention. Running lots of Derbies does not, in general, create the balance needed for a successful all age career. Training specifically for the Derby and running lots of Derbies usually means those dogs are not exposed to blinds in training enough and rarely to mark/blind combination tests. It is possible to over emphasize some skills to the detriment of others whether because of convenience (or inconvenience) or emphasis based on what is likely to be seen competitively. I believe that the best ultimate formula for success for a dog is to train them to be all age dogs, if a successful Derby career is possible without the development of problems that arise from running too many Derbies great. My view of the Derby has changed over the years, if the dog is ready to win then I would run few to gain experience in a field trial atmosphere. If one of the signature issues that can plague a dog it’s whole career raises it’s ugly head it’s time to stay home and train. For me the Derby is a means to an end not a dead end, after 24 months it is meaningless to the rest of the dog’s competitive career.
 

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November Morning Rain - just won a CDN open in early Sept. She has 3 finishes in 6 starts this year (3 Q's and I would guess 3 opens). Qualified All Age as of March with a first, a fourth, and a jam in three Q's.

When I watched her at one of her last derbies, I was impressed with her focus and demeanor. She had great obedience to and at the line and was very business like, not wild and crazy and uncontrolled - even after running so many derbies.
 

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November Morning Rain - just won a CDN open in early Sept. She has 3 finishes in 6 starts this year (3 Q's and I would guess 3 opens). Qualified All Age as of March with a first, a fourth, and a jam in three Q's.

When I watched her at one of her last derbies, I was impressed with her focus and demeanor. She had great obedience to and at the line and was very business like, not wild and crazy and uncontrolled - even after running so many derbies.
She would make an interesting stud dog. ;)
 

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I don't run many derbies and for the most part, I don't enjoy running derbies.

1. At a four stake trial, the derby is low man on the totem pole.
2. This means starting time is variable, grounds are often poor, and judges are frequently the least qualified at the field trial.
3. I don't enjoy waiting to run what are frequently stupid tests on poor grounds. (e.g. Short tight marks, or contrary marks)

It doesn't matter much to me whether my dog is on the derby list. I am looking for a dog that will be a FC/AFC and a regular competitor at the Nationals. That means, I want my dog to know how to run big dog marks and big dog blinds. I would rather wait to run my dog in the Q

I will run my dogs in the Derby on occasion to get a read on what my dog looks like in competition.
I might also run my dog in the Derby as an attitude pick me up.
 
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Birddogn --- True that... I wasn't sure if Bubba was referring to only future 'stud' dogs or all future' super stars based on the title of the thread, I thought it might be both male and female... However his post does mention studs...so I suppose he was referring only to young 'superstar' males.
 
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