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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can't figure out why my dog doesn't understand this concept which we have been working on for quite a while. He has been trained all the way through TT and does a really nice job. BUT, once he has that bumper in his mouth and is returning to me and I stop him, he just doesn't seem to understand the "over" or "back" command and slowly starts to walk to me. If I stand right in front of him, he sometimes will take the cast (reluctantly). I just don't understand why once the bumper is in his mouth, he loses his brain.

When I give him a cast with a bumper in his mouth and he starts to walk to me, I tell him "no" and move up to him or throw another bumper in the over direction. He may or may not take the cast at that point. If he does, it sure isn't with the enthusiasm he normally has for an "over" or "back" command. Getting ready to start swim-by and I figure if he can't run-by me he sure won't swim-by me either.

Help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

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Maybe start with a bumper in his mouth and send him "Back".
 

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Make sure that you are casting him to where he has been before and the piles are still there. Lardy says some dogs are slow at this and you have to walk out there and walk them over to the pile and show them what you want. Don't give up, I had a client dog I had to do this with. They will catch on eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Aubrey and Wayne for your suggestions. But Wayne should there always be a pile of bumpers for him to head to or just in the beginning? I thought he should eventually take a cast whether he saw bumpers or not.
 

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I pretty much have bumpers out all the time, maybe just one at the end of the session.
 

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over and back cast

Can't figure out why my dog doesn't understand this concept which we have been working on for quite a while. He has been trained all the way through TT and does a really nice job. BUT, once he has that bumper in his mouth and is returning to me and I stop him, he just doesn't seem to understand the "over" or "back" command and slowly starts to walk to me. If I stand right in front of him, he sometimes will take the cast (reluctantly). I just don't understand why once the bumper is in his mouth, he loses his brain.

When I give him a cast with a bumper in his mouth and he starts to walk to me, I tell him "no" and move up to him or throw another bumper in the over direction. He may or may not take the cast at that point. If he does, it sure isn't with the enthusiasm he normally has for an "over" or "back" command. Getting ready to start swim-by and I figure if he can't run-by me he sure won't swim-by me either.

Help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Becky, Remember you are teaching a new behavior...How many times has your dog picked up a bumper and came back to you?How many times have you cast the dog over? Be patient , As mentioned be sure the dog knows where to go..I start with the dog in a front sit on a return and then just give an over to a side pile...After the dog learns to cast from that position then try stopping in route back to you and casting...The enthusiasm will come , show some joy your self when the dog performs it for you...You will get through this and then face some of it over again when you go to swim-by....Steve S
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oh, maybe that's my problem...I don't always have a pile for him to be cast to. I guess I figured that he is so good at taking a cast when doing blinds - that I figured when doing discipline casting he didn't need a pile. OOPS, handler error. Another quesiton...When casting him to the "over" or "back" piles, how long do you let him go and when do you call him into you? After he's gotten to the pile?
 

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Oh, maybe that's my problem...I don't always have a pile for him to be cast to. I guess I figured that he is so good at taking a cast when doing blinds - that I figured when doing discipline casting he didn't need a pile. OOPS, handler error. Another quesiton...When casting him to the "over" or "back" piles, how long do you let him go and when do you call him into you? After he's gotten to the pile?
The answers should be in the program you're following. Not trying to tell you to abandon the program you follow but in Lardy's TRT, you leave the piles out there and you let the dog carry the cast all the way to the pile, then call them in. I've found that authentic, enthusiastic praise when they get to the pile helps to get the idea to click with the dog. Also, you may want to consider whether the prior work has been adequate. If the dog has been worked in the same location every session and has been reliably casting to the piles, problems should be minimal. Start with overs to the short Ts before trying the longer, walk as you cast to the over pile if needed, and great praise when they get to the pile.
 

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Can't figure out why my dog doesn't understand this concept which we have been working on for quite a while. He has been trained all the way through TT and does a really nice job. BUT, once he has that bumper in his mouth and is returning to me and I stop him, he just doesn't seem to understand the "over" or "back" command and slowly starts to walk to me. If I stand right in front of him, he sometimes will take the cast (reluctantly). I just don't understand why once the bumper is in his mouth, he loses his brain.

When I give him a cast with a bumper in his mouth and he starts to walk to me, I tell him "no" and move up to him or throw another bumper in the over direction. He may or may not take the cast at that point. If he does, it sure isn't with the enthusiasm he normally has for an "over" or "back" command. Getting ready to start swim-by and I figure if he can't run-by me he sure won't swim-by me either.

Help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Walk in your dog's shoes! Does it make any sense to go back or over with a bumper in his mouth?
No!

He has been returning directly to you hundreds of times and rewarded or reinforced for that!


It just doesn't make sense to a dog to not do that!

You will see many top trainers insist that their dog go back and go over and re-negotiate a hazard. I often see that the dogs are confused and less than subserviant because this makes so little sense. Trainers do it becasue they want to insist on "do what I say when I say, no matter what!". Frankly, I an not a fan of this. However, I do TEACH my dogs to do this and use it with discretion. I also believe in the value of being able to do a proper swim-by but please realize this is very contrary to some dogs!

In your case, you DO NEED to be able to introduce a measure of obedience doing this before the swim-by. It will make life much easier.

SO TEACH!.

Simply keep throwing a bumper before casting or after a refusal. Throw it to the over you should already have taught. Then praise greatly!!

Keep teaching and make it fun and your dog will get it!

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks all...I'll give it another try tomorrow.
 
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