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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just viewed the DVD.

Questions for those that have seen it....Regarding blinds with diversions, I found it quite different that Danny trains the dogs to pick up the mark first and then the blind. With the blind directly in line with the mark, it is understandable to pick up the mark first, but with the line outside the ark, under the ark, or behind the gun, you would train for poison birds by not allowing the mark to be picked up until after the blind has been completed

I see the merit in training as shown on the DVD for certain blinds one would encounter in a trial, however, does anyone feel this may create issues with poison birds when training blinds with diversions in this manner? Not looking to get crucified so stay phase 3 and discuss....not kill for posing the question.
 

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Ron Schuna said:
Just viewed the DVD.

Questions for those that have seen it....Regarding blinds with diversions, I found it quite different that Danny trains the dogs to pick up the mark first and then the blind. With the blind directly in line with the mark, it is understandable to pick up the mark first, but with the line outside the ark, under the ark, or behind the gun, you would train for poison birds by not allowing the mark to be picked up until after the blind has been completed

I see the merit in training as shown on the DVD for certain blinds one would encounter in a trial, however, does anyone feel this may create issues with poison birds when training blinds with diversions in this manner? Not looking to get crucified so stay phase 3 and discuss....not kill for posing the question.
I would always pick up the marks first in a dog's early training. You have to get them comfortable with diversions like going behind guns, near the old fall and under the arc before you make them do it as a poison bird.
 

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I'm not smart enough to answer your questions but what I did notice right off in the video was that while working on line manners even if the dog broke, crept, whatever, he still let the dog get the bird. Just kind of flew in the face of all that I had ever heard about if the dog breaks don't reward him with a retrieve.

I liked the video.
 

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The diversion drill that he demonstrates is handy for training younger dogs in my opinion, then moving to poison birds. Teach the first step of maintaining the line around the gun station and old falls, then switch it to a true poison bird scenario. Doing both keeps the dogs in balance...

/Paul
 

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Ron...was thinking the same. I like to use the mark as a reward after running the blind/diversion/poison bird. Keep the drill low key, try and make it fun, and I believe the excitement of getting a mark after the blind is a reward. But I'm new at this game...Phase 1 :D ....trying to learn....but I do wonder the same as you about retrieving the mark first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
reward

I have trained the mark as a reward too and also with young dogs, as soon as possible after walking fetch as the "No Bird- Leave It" is fresh in their mind. The mark as a reward also keeps them running back fast so they can get the reward (if that's in the cards)

Also, when I lived in Maine I had three permanent school blinds that I first taught as blinds, then put the launchers or my kids in the field to run the blinds either with the marks or a poison birds..

It seems the concept they are teaching is to get the dog used to running blinds behind the gun, past, through, and under the ark of marks, not necessarily having a blind with diversion (poison). The word diversion is (divert from) Their concept is more blinds with inclusions (associated marks). I see how this can condition the dog for blinds past, through, and under the ark of marks, but then you have to teach them the difference later on.....Ah Hah! Future content for Problems and Solutions II

See what crappy weather can do to a dog trainer...make 'em sit and watch the dvd and then analyze cuz the fields are covered in snow AGAIN!! :evil: At least my pup Willy enjoyed watching it with me. Anytime he heard Danny say sit or heal or back, his ears would cock up and he'd be glued for a bit
 

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Hey Ron.....Phase 3 :D when we realize we will never know everything and start to learn anew again....but I guess if you stay consistent with your method of teaching that blind concept(past, thru and under the arc) that it may not matter and will be a lot less confusing for the dog if you remain consistent. Glad we missed the snow this time.....good training Ron!...pete
 

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I liked how they classified dogs and the method of correction they would use based on the dog. Different dog, different teaching method.

I also liked how both Danny and Judy talked about reading the dog and adjusting your trainin and corrections accordingly.

Good video.

Glad I ordered it.

Carol
 

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Are there people in this thread actually trying to make suggestions toward Danny and Judy's training methods? :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not Me!

Achiro,

I'm not making suggestions for their training methods. In fact..with my 12 month old pup, I'm going to try the moving gunner blind with diversions as directed in the video and see how it goes. I was merely stating that maybe they would include this segment with poison birds in the next installment of their video series when I said Ah Hah.
 

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Achiro :D ...I don't believe anyone that has posted is suggesting that Danny and Judy's methods are suspect...far from it. The video is a wonderful training aid and I'm very grateful to Danny and Judy for sharing part of their success with us. We are comparing training and trying to learn....as Danny and Judy say...when you are either soaking up everything you can or realizing you don't know everything and never will. I'm with Bill about using the diversion training techniques from the video....and I too would like to see poison bird training included with the next segment...hope that happens.....pete
 

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I was fortunate enough to be able to attend a seminar with Danny down in Louisiana in January where he covered this drill. If I remember correctly, he starts off picking up the marks first and then runs the blind. Once the dog becomes more experienced, he introduces a dry shot and runs the blind, then eventually throws the mark, "No's" them off the mark and runs the blind first on all except the mark that lands "on-line" to the blind. Hope that helps.
 

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Do you think Mike Lardy ordered a copy? :roll:
 

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achiro said:
Are there people in this thread actually trying to make suggestions toward Danny and Judy's training methods? :shock:
Russ those are the Phase 2 folks that think there P1 or 3................but they're not..................... :?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I ordered the DVD

After much anticipation, I received my autorgraphed copy, I watched it and found it fantastic. Then posted for open discussion to take in what others might have gotten out of it and sought clarification from others view points without once questioning the validity of any of the solutions given in the DVD Call it what ever freakin phase you want if you are so inclined. I call it- Seeking input for discussion....Not looking for a label as Phase 1,2, or 3, but if someone wants to be an authority (phase 2) and question ANYONE having the gall to post to this thread constructively and try and label anyone that has actually contributed to this thread by trying to sponge more information, go right ahead. Don't know what good it does for anyone on this board but knock yourself out
 

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Polock said:
achiro said:
Are there people in this thread actually trying to make suggestions toward Danny and Judy's training methods? :shock:
Russ those are the Phase 2 folks that think there P1 or 3................but they're not..................... :?
I am not trying to classify anyone who has posted on this thread, but would anyone who was in Phase 2 ever recognize they were a Phase 2’er. Danny said he only has to worry about the people in Phase 3. So how many people does that actually leave in Phase 1 or 2? How about Phase 1.5 where you know enough to recognize a person in Phase 2, but know yourself that you still have a lot to learn?
 

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Shawn Riggs said:
Polock said:
achiro said:
Are there people in this thread actually trying to make suggestions toward Danny and Judy's training methods? :shock:
Russ those are the Phase 2 folks that think there P1 or 3................but they're not..................... :?
I am not trying to classify anyone who has posted on this thread, but would anyone who was in Phase 2 ever recognize they were a Phase 2’er. Danny said he only has to worry about the people in Phase 3. So how many people does that actually leave in Phase 1 or 2? How about Phase 1.5 where you know enough to recognize a person in Phase 2, but know yourself that you still have a lot to learn?
Well...did not understand the Phase thing to begin with...but now I am totally lost... Perhaps that is a good thing! ..right on over my head :?

So...Ron....! :) were the three (Maine) school blinds just across the road from your house?..I remember those!!!

Just ordered the DVD yesterday..so your inquiry is of much interest...after I watch it perhaps I will also post some questions on this thread ..if I dare :roll: Hope it arrives soon....with my "FREE 2" Avery HexaBumper "Flasher" LOL :D

(How are the Chessies?..good, I hope)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The field is gone

Hi Judy,

Yes the school blinds were in the field accross the road from my house. That field now is filled with houses so if I were still there I wouldn't get my marks when my kids got off the school bus and blinds after supper. It was a nice piece of property.

Ron
 

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Ron Schuna said:
Just viewed the DVD.
I just finished viewing the DVD - there were some useful tips embedded in there!

Couple of things I noticed:

First, it seemed there was no live birds shot on the DVD. That's a good thing, probably not indicative of the way Farmer/Aycock trains, but if the DVD falls in the wrong hands, such as the ARs, they can't hang evidence against us cruel folks :cry:

Second, Judy really used the "reps" to grind in some key messages - such as reading your dog, interpreting your dog. And she is so right - you can get results even if you have no specific methodology of training, so long as you read your dog right, and communicate to your dog, by hook or by prook, what action you want or don't want from him.

Well I think the subject on diversion and poison birds has already been discussed - I don't have anything new to say.

Good DVD, well worth the forty bucks!
 
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