[David Bailey]

I work with a trainer sometimes usually as the the bird boy. When working my dog, I asked about throwing some double marks. He said he never trains on doubles as he want the dog to concentrate on the single.

If I don't work the dog on doubles, how is he going to be able to handle them in a hunt test?

 

[rbr]

I have a feeling you misunderstood what he was saying. Running singles on mulitple bird setups helps the dog learn to concentrate on each mark, but he needs to also train on those multiple setups as they are. Doubles ,triples and quads need to be run to advance.

Bert

 

[Wayne Nutt]

I always have multiple gun stations out when training. But I do limited multiple marks. I probably do two doubles per week with Hank. He was taught to do doubles and has worked his way up to triples. I think Lardy recommends 25% multiple marks, the rest singles or combinations.

One of the reasons for this limitation is to limit head swinging. If you do multiples every day then the dogs will anticipate and start head swinging.

 

[Pals]

A wise woman once told me: NEVER SAY NEVER.

 

[Chris Atkinson]

A long time, retired field trialer that I have trained with likes to quote the late Harold Bruninga. He says that Mr. Bruninga used to say that he would one day write a training book. (Mr. Bruninga traineed multiple titled dogs in his lifetime.)

Supposedly he said that the title of chapter one would be "singles". Chapter two would also be called "singles". Chapter three, "more singles" and so on.

While multiples are fun and may simulate better what happens on game day, many successful trainers focus on excellence with the basics.

Good luck and have fun!

Chris

 

[Rich Martin]

I have been working on doubles lately trying to get the dog to swing when I swing, I have worked on so many singles that he locks on to them and he has a hard time swinging to look for the second throw. so my question is how do you get the dog to learn to swing for the 2nd mark if they lock on the first? I use here,heel and he will start to move then lock back on the first bird, if I use the duck sound on the winger he will then look then mark. I feel if I never work on double he will not get the concept to swing am I thinking of this wrong?

 

[Howard N]

That's why you do multiples. The dog has to learn to move with you (not before you move )

I like to do it roughly half and half. That is I'll run the multiple as a multiple around half the time and break it up the other half.

Some trainers do a great job of training mixed. That is when they go to the line with a triple set up, they might do a single followed by double. I'll often do this and I also do three singles.

However, you still have to do the multiples, especially when you have birds that play off each other. I remember, Woody Thurman said at a retriever training seminar he was giving when I was a beginner, "Singles increase marking a little bit, doubles decrease marking a little bit." I probably butchered what he said but that was the general idea. I don't 100% agree with this but it's not entirely wrong either, depends on the dog and where he's at.

 

[Chris Atkinson]

I have been working on doubles lately trying to get the dog to swing when I swing, I have worked on so many singles that he locks on to them and he has a hard time swinging to look for the second throw. so my question is how do you get the dog to learn to swing for the 2nd mark if they lock on the first? I use here,heel and he will start to move then lock back on the first bird, if I use the duck sound on the winger he will then look then mark. I feel if I never work on double he will not get the concept to swing am I thinking of this wrong?

I don't think you're looking at it wrong, and like Nancy wrote "never say 'never'".

Are you using stickmen at your winger locations? Are you training solo, or with other people?

 

[Larry Thompson1]

I always have multiple gun stations out when training. But I do limited multiple marks. I probably do two doubles per week with Hank. He was taught to do doubles and has worked his way up to triples. I think Lardy recommends 25% multiple marks, the rest singles or combinations.

One of the reasons for this limitation is to limit head swinging. If you do multiples every day then the dogs will anticipate and start head swinging.

This is what I do with an advanced dog. Young dog about 15%. It doesn't matter what game your playing. FT's will have a shot. HT's will have a duck call and a shot. Only in the advanced HT"s you might not get either, but by that time your dog knows theres more than one bird to be thrown. Keep it simple and avoid head swinging. Good luck.

 

[TN_LAB]

I have been working on doubles lately trying to get the dog to swing when I swing, I have worked on so many singles that he locks on to them and he has a hard time swinging to look for the second throw. so my question is how do you get the dog to learn to swing for the 2nd mark if they lock on the first? I use here,heel and he will start to move then lock back on the first bird, if I use the duck sound on the winger he will then look then mark. I feel if I never work on double he will not get the concept to swing am I thinking of this wrong?

Might you be throwing your 2nd mark on the HERE side and trying to pull your dog?

I'd try it on the HEEL side and push the dog toward the 2nd mark (i'd even go so far as to step in front of the dog and maybe even nudge with my leg).

Since your not really working on marking (your working on moving with the gun), these would be simple marks.

Or you could make that go bird a flyer

 

[Rich Martin]

I did not mean to hijack the thread but some good advise as been given. thank you. To answer some questions, no I do not have stickmen out in the field, I train by myself most of the time. yesterday I did mostly single marks and only 1 double which I made pretty easy and he did not have to move much. Thanks again for the replys

 

[TN_LAB]

I did not mean to hijack the thread but some good advise as been given. thank you. To answer some questions, no I do not have stickmen out in the field, I train by myself most of the time. yesterday I did mostly single marks and only 1 double which I made pretty easy and he did not have to move much. Thanks again for the replys

Interesting thing you mentioned there about not having to move much. With simply/easy marks, I'd think moving a fair amount (up to 180*) would make it clearer to the dog (get that 1st bird out of your sight and mind and look for that 2nd bird).

Hopefully you guys will get it figured out.

 

[helencalif]

To answer some questions, no I do not have stickmen out in the field, I train by myself most of the time. yesterday I did mostly single marks and only 1 double which I made pretty easy and he did not have to move much. Thanks again for the replys

Re: training alone and doing doubles. Don uses a remote winger often with a stickman. We carry two types in the truck at all times.

They are often used even when there are warm bodies wearing white jackets and throwing birds for multiple marks. Sometimes the lighting, the distance of a mark, and the position of the throw, requires a stickman -- white or black. We have both -- white from Butch Green, white and black from Lou Magee Products. The white and black stickman is relatively new.

If you haven't seen it, Lou Magee has a website. He also sent us a prototype stickman to be used by those who train for hunt tests.
Helen

 

[Rich Martin]

Interesting thing you mentioned there about not having to move much. With simply/easy marks, I'd think moving a fair amount (up to 180*) would make it clearer to the dog (get that 1st bird out of your sight and mind and look for that 2nd bird).

Hopefully you guys will get it figured out.

Normally I do 90deg but yesterday I did not feel like moving the wingers that far apart so I did one double that way. the wingers were set up to throw 180deg from each other and using running water for one mark and other was behind some tall weeds. most all the marks I run are in tall weeds but this time of year the weeds are laying down for the most part. I will try the 180 deg for the doubles.Thanks

 

[JustinS]

instead of doing a lot of multiples I like to launch a single then send them on a blind then let them retrieve the single - it helps with working on casting through suction and builds their memory as they will normally have to take casts and then remember where the bird was thrown when they get back.

 

[Rich Martin]

Re: training alone and doing doubles. Don uses a remote winger often with a stickman. We carry two types in the truck at all times.

They are often used even when there are warm bodies wearing white jackets and throwing birds for multiple marks. Sometimes the lighting, the distance of a mark, and the position of the throw, requires a stickman -- white or black. We have both -- white from Butch Green, white and black from Lou Magee Products. The white and black stickman is relatively new.

If you haven't seen it, Lou Magee has a website. He also sent us a prototype stickman to be used by those who train for hunt tests.
Helen

Yes, I do have remote wingers with sound. I will look into the stickmen. thanks