[Shayne Mehringer]

My first poll took a dump, trying it again....

I've posted this question a couple years ago, thought it was worth re-hashing.

Both dogs are identical in looks, age, breeding, desire, etc... You are in the market for a young dog and all you know is their derby record. Which dog would you pick. They ran the exact same trials, with the same handler, and went through the same basics.

Shayne

 

[David Baty]

No contest. Dog B. He picked up approximately 60 chickens without missing a one. This boy can mark and all age stakes are tough enough that a hunt or two is not going to kick you out of the money, where it will in the derby. Is he for sale?

 

[Arturo]

I voted for dog B because we are talking about the Derby. 15 greens is a row is good in a Derby. Very consistant.

I would have picked dog A if we were talking about the Open. 15 greens in an Open and he ain got squat. Very consistant but no cigar. Not 1 point. Two wins in an Open and its an FC.

What a difference!

WAH - Was this dog handled by a AM or a PRO ..........or a PRO posing as an AM?

 

[Linda Noga]

.....

I have a B, looking foreward to AA.

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

I'd pick A, put him on the market as a derby dog that made the list, sell him for $1K a point and start over.

But if i had to pick one to take to all-age, i'd take B.

Shayne

 

[Steve Bean]

I picked dog B because it was dog A in the other post, you know, the one that nailed the 400 yd mark, and that is why he is always bringing home a ribbon. I hate to go home empty handed. :lol:

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

Last time i did this.... seems like the votes were way more balanced.

Shayne

 

[K G]

Last time you did this, the situation was relative to judging the dogs, not selling them.

Whole 'nother topic....

Keith G.

 

[JBlack]

Dog B shows consistency and gets my $$$.

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

I picked Dog A. Here's why:

Dog A only finished 2 trials, but he WON both, thus was the best marker on those days. Dog B has never gotten higher than green. Consistent, but not able to rise above the "just hanging in there" level.

Dog B has demonstrated that he can cook along and make it to the last series. Dog A has demonstrated that he has some quirk or other that causes him to fail to make it to the last series more times than not, but when he does, he clobbers the field.

I'd take "Quirky but Brilliant" over "Consistent but Pedestrian" any day of the week.

Whatever the quirk is, it may resolve itself with maturity. Or, after Dog A amasses his 400 AA points, it will just be the stuff of legends.

Lisa

 

[Goldenboy]

From the original question (and I think the scenario is far fetched):

Both dogs are identical in looks, age, breeding, desire, etc... You are in the market for a young dog and all you know is their derby record. Which dog would you pick. They ran the exact same trials, with the same handler, and went through the same basics.

Based on some of the Derby's I've seen recently, I wouldn't call finishing 15 out of 15 "pedestrian". Not only would the dog have demonstrated uniformally good marking ability, it has also proven to be reasonably technically proficient and thus, able to learn.

Dog A has demonstrated that he has some quirk or other that causes him to fail to make it to the last series more times than not,

That's 13 out of 15 "failed to make it's"!!!! And, in a Derby yet. Given the identical backgrounds of the two dogs, and the failure in such a large number of trials, I'd bet that dog "A" would be a dog that a person would hang on to for years in the hope of drawing out consistent brilliance but who would one day realize that there's a fatal limitation and then sell it as a gun dog. I would chose dog "B" who would go on to accumulate 400 AA points and become the stuff of legends.

As Joe S. might put it: hypothetical regards,

Mark

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

In my little hypothetical world, it's Dog B that putters along, ever in the green (sometimes getting another colored ribbon) but never gets all the way to blue. Those are the dogs whose owners hang on for years and years, hoping for that one flash of brilliance, that "one good weekend" to finally get the title.

In my little hypothetical world, while Dog A will certainly be a thrill ride, there will be more than one "good weekend" especially if the dog matures into himself. The brilliance and ability to cream the field is already there. It may never be there in Dog B.

Since I am buying and selling dogs, I would not hang onto Dog A for long if he didn't start showing me some improvement.

Likewise, I would not hang onto dog B for long if he didn't start showing me some "stuff". Hunt tests are filled with dogs who are consistent. That doesn't necessarily make them AA material. There has to be that spark, that magic. You know it when you see it.

Backatchya hypothetical regards,

Lisa - (gee, this is fun)

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

Last time you did this, the situation was relative to judging the dogs, not selling them.

Whole 'nother topic....

Keith G.

No, i posted this exact same scenario... year or more ago... two derby dogs, 15 derbies, one got two blues and made the DL, the other JAMed them all.

Shayne

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

From the original question (and I think the scenario is far fetched):

I don't think it's that far fetched. There are dogs who come out brilliant and crumble... and there are dogs who FINALLY mature and put it all together in th end... and there are dogs who have JAMed an assload of derbies without making the colors.

My question to the seller of dog A. WHEN did he win those two derbies? If it was the last two he ran, that changes some things.

Shayne

 

[Goldenboy]

Better yet, I'd buy both, breed them, and then train the puppies would go on to 400 AA points (each) and become the stuff of legends (at which point I'd be the most influential person in FT history).

Right backatcha hypothetical regards,

Mark

 

[Goldenboy]

[quote="Shayne Mehringer
My question to the seller of dog A. WHEN did he win those two derbies? If it was the last two he ran, that changes some things.[/quote]

You're right, good question!

Mark

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

I'd ask that question, plus find out how he fumbled on those other 13. If he buggared up just one bird all weekend, or broke, or something that is workable with, that there's dawg!

There have been plenty of examples of Dog B in the world. I'd also like to know why they never got better than green. Bearing in mind, minor stakes judges tend to hand out greens deeper in the field than AA stake judges. There's a question in my mind that will need to be answered.

Lisa

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

I'd ask that question, plus find out how he fumbled on those other 13. If he buggared up just one bird all weekend, or broke, or something that is workable with, that there's dawg!

There have been plenty of examples of Dog B in the world. I'd also like to know why they never got better than green. Bearing in mind, minor stakes judges tend to hand out greens deeper in the field than AA stake judges. There's a question in my mind that will need to be answered.

Lisa

Yeah... i'd take a dog that won the only two derbies that he didn't "break" in. hehehe

Shayne

 

[K G]

Shayne wrote:

No, i posted this exact same scenario... year or more ago... two derby dogs, 15 derbies, one got two blues and made the DL, the other JAMed them all.

I would submit that the community is....how you say...."different"....than it was a year or more ago.

Plus, the most recent of the "A" vs. "B" scenarios discussed here was about judging.

's all I'm sayin'........ 8)

Keith G.

 

[captdan]

If were to buy an older dog (which I probably wouldn't because I have too much fun playing with the pups), I would choose B--maybe. In today's world, that dog would have been very well trainied in basics, could handle, and could mark very well. This animal has beaten dog A 13 times out of 15 and finishes every trial. If you don't finish, you can't win. The reservation that I would have is a thought about why the dog only greens--great marker but only fair nose once it gets in the area of the fall, perhaps. Can the fault be overcome with training.

Dan