RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After a couple of firm No No corections this morning during a drill, my 15 month old lab started laying down after he was verbally corrected. What does this mean. The drill we were doing he had done a dozen times before this spring but for some reason he started refusing a right over all the way to the pile? he would lay down? He is CC. Should I have Nick Over Nick? Is he pushing me? This same dog i can handle out to 150 yards on cold blind. Are we going backwards?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I gave him a #1 level nick at two piles on sit whistles to sharpen his sit some bfore this laying series... Maybe this got him sensitive...So in short he was feeling too much pressure? Now he would get up and come to my heel and rerun the drill but I had to reseed the pile to get him to go all the way over ( 20 yards) to the right and left overs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
There are many here with more knowledge than me, but I see these things as fitting into one of two categories:

1) Dog being given too much pressure to perform a command it does not understand or is incapable of performing in the given circumstances. Solution: back up, slow down, build confidence, teach

2) Dog refusing to perform a known command that he is capable of performing. Solution: force the dog to comply

It sounds as if it's the second scenario for you guys? If you're sure he knows what he is supposed to do, you have to make him do it. Sit-nick-sit or over-nick-over should do it. An ear pinch all the way over if the dog just won't move. I'm a little concerned that you think a level 1 nick for a sloppy sit might have made him sensitive; he should have nodded at you and said "you got me Dad." Are you sure he's properly CC?

Just curious, what drill were you running?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys for the advice..he's really a level #2 on TriT..he has done these drills over and over. I first noticed he was sloppy on the BB blinds on his right overs so when he finished this drill ( 6 bumpers from 50 -180 yards) I set up this 20-30 yard wagon wheel (5 bumper) and then all hell broke loose sort of. He would do left and right backs and 45's but started to lay down on his overs. I only nicked probably 2-3 sits at level 1 and then last one at level2. I used more NO NOOOO than anything. i reseeded piles to get him to go over. But I felt i was too easy on him since he finished T work in October. I'll just do a single T tomorrow with nick over nick and see how he does. But heres one thing he does a lot..the further i handle him away from me on a right or left over ...he will 90% of time take a right or left back....I then stop him...say no no then recast him and he does great...is he trying me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
swamprooter said:
Thanks guys for the advice..he's really a level #2 on TriT..he has done these drills over and over. I first noticed he was sloppy on the BB blinds on his right overs so when he finished this drill ( 6 bumpers from 50 -180 yards) I set up this 20-30 yard wagon wheel (5 bumper) and then all hell broke loose sort of. He would do left and right backs and 45's but started to lay down on his overs. I only nicked probably 2-3 sits at level 1 and then last one at level2. I used more NO NOOOO than anything. i reseeded piles to get him to go over. But I felt i was too easy on him since he finished T work in October. I'll just do a single T tomorrow with nick over nick and see how he does. But heres one thing he does a lot..the further i handle him away from me on a right or left over ...he will 90% of time take a right or left back....I then stop him...say no no then recast him and he does great...is he trying me?
I think it's common for a dog to drive back on an over command, get stopped, and then get it right on the re-cast. Attrition will usually take care of that as he learns that he will always be stopped if he drives back on an over. I don't even say the "no no" there, just give him a little come in whistle, re-sit him, and give him the cast again. Then you can add a little indirest pressure if you think he stops trying to get it right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,658 Posts
It's really hard to tell what's going on here without seeing your dog. But it is not uncommon at all for a young dog that has been taught t's, wagon wheel, and other casting drills to comback after a layoff acting like they don't know what to do. It sounds more to me like no confidence than it does him blowing you off. I would back up and run your casting drills for a few more days, to review it with him, and to help him build his confidence. Then after you KNOW he remembers it well, you can correct with any future problems with attrition, like Zoe already mentioned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
We did a quick session at lunch just your basic T work with back pile about 70 yards and overs at 20 yards apiece. he did much better and hustled to the pile better the first 5-6 casts. But Then he started getting loopy again and short stopping to the pile. Then I sat him at the apex like I do before every new cast and gave him a right over, he started to stop and I went Nick (#2) Over Nick. He then tried to sit at nick but i was giving him some of my body language towards the right pile then he started walking again towards the pile and slowed down again then i again went Nick over Nick. he then layed down short of the over pile. I wondering if he is associating a NICK with sit? or should I be applying pressure with a low #2 burn?

This has been a nightmare day. I think we went 5 months backwards. I most have a hole in my old Twork or CC. This dog has been through OB,FF,CC, Twork, SwimBy, ColdBlinds, 2Xs. I feel like I have opened pandora's box by merely trying to do some touch up work on some overs.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm definitely the problem..the dog is way smarter than me! heres what I think is happening now that I have had lunch and time to soak.
1. i unknowingly put pressure on the over piles by nicking for a sharper sit.
2. He is short stopping the piles because now i have made a hotspot.
3. he's a young dog and my expectations are too high for him at 15 months probably.
4. it's hot..but I carry a water jug...but your right it's hot.
5. i probably should have never gone back to the Twork. i should have tried a different drill.

I think I need to be 'nicked"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
swamprooter said:
We did a quick session at lunch just your basic T work with back pile about 70 yards and overs at 20 yards apiece. he did much better and hustled to the pile better the first 5-6 casts. But Then he started getting loopy again and short stopping to the pile. Then I sat him at the apex like I do before every new cast and gave him a right over, he started to stop and I went Nick (#2) Over Nick. He then tried to sit at nick but i was giving him some of my body language towards the right pile then he started walking again towards the pile and slowed down again then i again went Nick over Nick. he then layed down short of the over pile. I wondering if he is associating a NICK with sit? or should I be applying pressure with a low #2 burn?

This has been a nightmare day. I think we went 5 months backwards. I most have a hole in my old Twork or CC. This dog has been through OB,FF,CC, Twork, SwimBy, ColdBlinds, 2Xs. I feel like I have opened pandora's box by merely trying to do some touch up work on some overs.......
I went back to TT to clean up handling stuff with Katie, but in his video, Lardy says he never goes back to TT; says you can get all that done in transition drills (FWIW).

What did you do after he layed down?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I did a toot toot whistle to get him to stand up and gave some BIG dramatic overs and cut the distance to him in half to get closer.

I remember forcing him to over pile back in t work. I must have created a hot spot on correcting a sit whistle while he was at the pile. A pro friend of mine that watches over my back sometimes said the same thing as lardy, never go back..................we're just going to do marks for a couple of days.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top