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It's fine with me if anyone want's a pro to train and or handle their dog.

Training a dog to master level of even higher isn't rocket science. Lardy, Farmer, Voigt and many others will come right to your living room for a couple hundred dollars and show you how to do it.

What most people lack is dedication.
Then why do the pros that dominate the field at these master tests have such a low pass rate? I kept track of pros results on entry express when I was contemplating sending my puppy off. The best pro that I looked at had a 33% pass rate in Master tests. Some weekends they would go 1 for 7 in Master tests. They will even drive to tests that are further away to solely run master dogs with judges they know instead of entering the master dogs in the more local tests. The junior trainers at the kennel run the junior and senior dogs at the local test.

I personally can't afford to pay 800-1000 bucks a month for a 33% chance of passing. I know pros have to make a living and I respect them for that because I know I'm not capable of training a large number of dogs, but it just wasn't in the cards for me. Training my dog myself was the best decision I ever made for her. We may never obtain a master title, but knowing what I know now it was the right decision
 

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Not sure where you are getting MH title is worthless but it is certainly a great accomplishment in many minds. We all play different games at different levels Be proud of what you have accomplished and the journey you and your best friend traveled together. That is all that counts in the end!
Here is what I said..
“And some of us who worked hard to get the Master Title are told it doesn’t mean much anymore, and it won’t, untill you are successful at chasing plates!

I didn’t say “ Worthless”.
My point was, SOME support the moving of goal posts, believing that a Master Hunter Title, isn’t enough now to prove anything.. They believe That only passing the number of tests to get that master title, isn’t good enough! They believe you need to run many more tests to show the dogs consistency of a pass percentage of weekend tests, and then to prove it farther, by successfully competing for a plate at the Master National event..
Some dogs are 5x MNH’s!!!! :)

Many( not all) are folks that don’t hunt , don’t train their own dogs,or are pros gaining business to keep client dogs in their kennels.

Those folks have lost sight what the Hunt Test programs ideology was for.
It was nearly a gauge for a hunter or non professional trainer, to test his Dog against a written standard described by the venue..
That’s all!
Other than the social aspect of weekend tests, or the challenge to attain qualification to attend the national even, I don’t understand once you attain a Master Hunter designation, folks run every Master test available in their area, and travel good amount of distance to run more..
People enjoy the activity… I get that!, but don’t disparage a person/dog who met the designation by meeting the minimum qualification set forth by the VENUE!!
 
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Training my dog myself was the best decision I ever made for her. We may never obtain a master title, but knowing what I know now it was the right decision
If you are dedicated to doing it the odds are in your favor of getting an MH title on her. Even if you don’t you will learn something and she will be your dog.
A pro with a 33% pass rate in master tests is one of two things; A piss poor trainer or dishonest and just trying to get handling fees from clients.
 
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If you are dedicated to doing it the odds are in your favor of getting an MH title on her. Even if you don’t you will learn something and she will be your dog.
I couldn't agree more. We are definitely in too far to stop now! She is only a year and a half old so she has plenty of life ahead of her. Currently has her AKC senior title. Going to start working on her HRC finished title this fall. I have learned exponentially more than she has, lol
 

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Here is what I said..
“And some of us who worked hard to get the Master Title are told it doesn’t mean much anymore, and it won’t, until you are successful at chasing plates!

I didn’t say “ Worthless”.
My point was, SOME support the moving of goal posts, believing that a Master Hunter Title, isn’t enough now to prove anything.. They believe That only passing the number of tests to get that master title, isn’t good enough! They believe you need to run many more tests to show the dogs consistency of a pass percentage of weekend tests, and then to prove it farther, by successfully competing for a plate at the Master National event..
I don't doubt someone said this to you, but I have never heard anyone talk like that at all. And honestly, it makes no sense to me. No one that I know would ever think "Oh, John's dog only has his MH title, but we don't know if he is really good dog until he runs a Master National?" That, to me, is absolutely ludicrous. The people that I know generally know what a good dog looks like and could give a crap if you attempted the Master National or not. I think you met some bad apples.

With that said, I also know some dogs that have their MH title and they are unimpressive to say the least. It's a miracle they earned the title but they did. So, to me, that is what people are talking about when they say a MH title "isn't what it used to be" or whatever they say/said. And that happens at any level of AKC or HRC tests. It just is what it is.
 

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Good for you, people should run their dogs whether or not they use a pro, isn’t that the point of this whole exercise? Foolish me, I thought that was the whole point of hunt tests.
Yessir, I agree. Even though HT are run to a standard, to me I compete with myself to get better. I played baseball in college and have always been very competitive, so this is now my outlet. the Qs and Derbys are super fun even though Ill more times than not be outclassed by Pros or Super Ams. But Ive found them all to be super nice, helpful and encouraging as their dogs kick my ass!
 

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I talked to Tammy last night, she explained that it will be a trail run at their hunt on Oct 15 & 16. The point system will be different and there will be placements. She is working with Jerry Mann to work out the details. Dog will need a MH title to run. Passes for this will not count for passes to qual for MN at this point. Not sure if you can enter both reg master test and the Master Excel on same weekend. She said it is going to be for the exceptional dogs. not just typical MH dogs.
post #33

From the HT regs: "Section 24. Scoring. The Judges of any Hunting
Test shall not rank dogs in the order of the dog’s relative
numerical scores, nor shall Judges be obliged to divulge
any information with respect to the relative standing of
numerical scores."

That's the essence of the HT game, performance against a standard, not the other dogs. Change that, it's a different game. As has been said above, there's already a good game where dogs compete against each other.
 

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What I deleted was a world famous Gooser GDG…
What’s weird, I got a notification fro RTF about a trophy I earned! I had a whole list of them!
 
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I have seen this in FT's in minor stakes. I do not like it as a policy for HRC. Limits the amount of dogs that can be run, limiting the ability of a club to make money, so then they have to do a fundraiser at the social to make money. It costs the club money in workers, birds, poppers, should not be allowed in Finished in my opinion. Also makes the test go longer putting off the social.
How many HRC tests have you run? There are several clubs that run anywhere from 4 to 8 finished flights, 3 to 4 seasoned and 2 started. They budget for help, have excellent communication and very well organized. Most of the people i know that attend them regularly enjoy the raffle items. The heat, what time stakes are being finished is more of a factor in attendance. I'd say the way HRC is growing they've gotten something figured out. Jmo
 

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Then why do the pros that dominate the field at these master tests have such a low pass rate? I kept track of pros results on entry express when I was contemplating sending my puppy off. The best pro that I looked at had a 33% pass rate in Master tests. Some weekends they would go 1 for 7 in Master tests. They will even drive to tests that are further away to solely run master dogs with judges they know instead of entering the master dogs in the more local tests. The junior trainers at the kennel run the junior and senior dogs at the local test.

I personally can't afford to pay 800-1000 bucks a month for a 33% chance of passing. I know pros have to make a living and I respect them for that because I know I'm not capable of training a large number of dogs, but it just wasn't in the cards for me. Training my dog myself was the best decision I ever made for her. We may never obtain a master title, but knowing what I know now it was the right decision
There can be a few reasons for this.
Often the clients want to move up a stake before the dog is ready or
The trainer wants as many handler fees or expense sharing as possible or
Sometimes an owner doesn't care if the dog passes but would like the dog to have fun. I have a gun dog that picks up 4 to 6 hundred birds a year and is not required to be steady and has no idea what an honor is. I told the client she doesn't honor ,he said whats an honor so I told him then when he asked how she did I said she broke on the honor and got the bird before the other dog. He said "thats my girl"😀 We crammed for a week and got her through one. He doesn't care. her field work is excellent. This type is hard on the pro's record along with the first one I listed
Sometimes a dog goes through a bad streak or bad breaks
Sometimes they are running difficult breeds,some dogs look good one day and won't get out of the box the next for no apparent reason. they have that type of temperament
Some dogs are of poor quality and are not made for the game but the owners love them and don't want to give up. There are probably more reasons
Pete
 

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Some dogs are of poor quality
I have seen plenty of that at the few hunt tests I have attended and worked. Color seems to be very important. Lots of "Fox Red" and chocolate labs at hunt tests compared to field trials.
 

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I have seen plenty of that at the few hunt tests I have attended and worked. Color seems to be very important. Lots of "Fox Red" and chocolate labs at hunt tests compared to field trials.
I think most are new people to the game and don't or didn't realize that genetics are important, If they stick around long enough their next dog will have better breeding. I put a MH on my first dog pretty quick for a young newby and she was not well bred until 4 generations back.But I still gravitated toward Fc breedings after that, because of the learning curve
 

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With a single rule change, many 8 point judges were no longer eligible. The game lost a wealth of knowledge. It is no surprise that it became harder to find judges. A lot of those ladies and gentlemen sat in the chair a lot of weekends every year.
Please I am not tooting my own horn as I have had this discussion with Russ Reavis several times. Always have trained my own dogs. I have well over 50 master points. Have run several Master Nationals. Judged the MN. Judged the NRC . Judged the National Derby. Have run my dog in 5 Field Trial Nationals. I am currently not qualified to judge a Junior hunter.I would love to judge a Junior Hunter again because that'.s where it all starts. Then a frosty is well deserved.
 
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