RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
got a dog that knows when she has collar on, should i be training with collar or start with collar off. any info will be helpful, some say train all the time with it on and others say to keep it off., because at test she knows it is off
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,161 Posts
The dog is collar wise. How old is the dog? My first thought would be to start from scratch. Basic OB with out the collar turned on but on the dog. After you have OB reastablished then I would go back collar condition as if she had never had the collar on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
got a dog that knows when she has collar on, should i be training with collar or start with collar off. any info will be helpful, some say train all the time with it on and others say to keep it off., because at test she knows it is off
Your dog is test wise. This is caused by running tests before the propper behaviors are engrained.

For example the dog creeps or is noisy in a test and you send for the bird. Dog is rewarded for the creep/noise. Monday you go out to train and light the dog up for creeping. Dog draws a clear contrast between what happens at tests and what happens in training. Same with a water cheat. Rather than stop the dog and handle into the water, you let the dog go ahead and get the bird. Dog is rewarded for cheat. Monday you set up a cheaty mark and clobber the dog with a collar correction. Again the dog draws a contrast.

Never train without the collar and don't run a test until the propper behaviors are engrained (or be willing to pick up the dog).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,624 Posts
.....



Never train without the collar and don't run a test until the propper behaviors are engrained (or be willing to pick up the dog).
And never come home on Monday and do those things that SHOW the clear contrast from the test. :)

JS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,266 Posts
Have you run hunt tests with your dog? What did it do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yes she has a finisher in hrc on her, she would creep in those test, started akc test and she would break, other then that she does great
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
yes she has a finisher in hrc on her, she would creep in those test, started akc test and she would break, other then that she does great
Unfortunately the "that" will end your day. AKC will allow for more creep than HRC (you only need a 5 in trainability), but there is no talking so...

I just read the paragraph from Lardy's Collar Conditioning DVD.

"Your dog is unlikely to become collar wise if you always train with a collar, and design your program to avoid giving frequent collar corrections. Never work your retriever in competitions, or in other circumstances without the collar, prior to achieving nearly automatic correct responses."

I would (am) working on steadiness issues with 2 dogs right now. These are dogs that I ran in AKC tests allowed the dog to retrieve with a creep. The RTFer Pete has posted an article in RJ on steadiness drill that he developed. I've seen Much improvement with my dogs using it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
You will not fix your issues on the internet.

Take the dog back to your Pro and have him correct the issues you have caused. And in the meantime do not plan to run any tests until the standards are corrected and the issues with the dog are fixed.
Wow they are clearly asking for help not judgment. Maybe the dog never went to a pro. Maybe it did?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
So be it i don't know the situation. But I know enough that many "pros" will fill your head with B.S. and never teach you right from wrong not trying to start an argument here. Just some pay very good money and never have any feed back or teaching on what is going on. From my stand point if im gonna pay hundreds of dollars a month for a pro i want to be "taught" also or at least be schooled a little. We came to them for a reason. Contrary to popular belief we haven't all been doing this for years. If you want to keep this awesome experience alive some knowledge has to be passed on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
ajohnson

I have a feeling that you have a pretty good idea as to what went wrong. That is not the same thing as knowing how to fix it. I have made plenty of mistakes myself. Even if you did not use a pro, now is the time to find one or find a very experienced AND knowledgeable mentor. There are plenty of experienced people but I wouldn't call them all knowledgeable. Choose wisely. Also, this is not a problem to be solved on the internet. I think it would be best if someone saw you and your dog together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
The OP didn't ask how to fix a problem, the OP asked whether or not he should train some without the ecollar. I gave him my opinion and also quoted what Lardy has to say on the subject from his CC DVD (the book accompanying the DVD). But there are two schools of thought. Some trainers advocate training some without the ecollar on the dog and giving non-ecollar corrections. Sounds like the OP simply wants to hear what someone other than Lardy has to say on the subject. Nothing wrong with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Last final little bit of wisdom I've gained in the numerous sporting events iv called hobbies. If you want to keep a event alive like this you need to share wisdom to keep building competition otherwise whats the fun. Just my 2¢
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
captainjack, you are right, the op didn't ask for a fix but he did say that any info would be helpful. I don't think that seeking advice from someone who is knowledgeable is bad advice.

blackasmolasses, you are right, there is a need to share wisdom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,354 Posts
I had the same problem a few years ago. it happen at a test, I went to the marshal and said, did you see that, she is great in the field. What do you think I sould do. She pointed to a truck across the parking lot and said ask hm, he is a long time field trialer.so I did. He was very short, She is test wise, alway back the collar with the stick. I have had no problems ever since then.
Keith
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,502 Posts
got a dog that knows when she has collar on, should i be training with collar or start with collar off. any info will be helpful, some say train all the time with it on and others say to keep it off., because at test she knows it is off
I am taking it that you have had the collar on sometimes when training or trained without the collar sometimes. And is your dog CC completely; if not you probably need to revisit.
I would suggest as the others have to keep the collar on the dog all the time you train.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,250 Posts
Never issue a command you can't enforce.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,476 Posts
Your dog is test wise. This is caused by running tests before the propper behaviors are engrained. . . . . .
. . . . . Never train without the collar and don't run a test until the propper behaviors are engrained (or be willing to pick up the dog).
yup yup!!!
but not too many new kids are willing to give up a $1.20 ribbon, for a $75 training session.
Yet the "Hey, even here, if I flip Dad the paw I do not get the birds" is a tail every dog needs to chase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
got a dog that knows when she has collar on, should i be training with collar or start with collar off. any info will be helpful, some say train all the time with it on and others say to keep it off., because at test she knows it is off
What mischief does the dog do off the collar that the dog doesn't do wearing the collar? Despite being a fan of collar=fun - can't tell if your collar wise issue is one of legit correction or need to better collar condition. Done right it shouldn't matter at a test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
502 Posts
When used properly, the collar should not be considered a weapon, it a tool to be used to promote proper habits. so, if you instill proper habits and reinforce them with the collar, in theory, your trainee he should perform those habits whether or not he is wearing the unit.
"ALWAYS WEAR THE COLLAR WHEN TRAINING"
Good luck
GG
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top