[splashdownoutfitters]

I purchased a dog from a Lady in Peyton Co. about 1yr ago.. The dog being just a year old has what the Vet calls EIC....The dog in Question is sired 2004 NFC DRAKE by a Lean Mac and Rita reynolds Bitch....After asking " Mrs Breeder'' about this .She said she would replace with another lab in a Year or 2 by another FC sired stud to her bitch whom is running trails right now....Mrs bREEDER also wants the dog back to examine it...Why Cant I just for a spay and get 2 vets opinions instead of having to fly the dog back to Colorado and spending even more money...What would you guys do out there?
Why send the dog so she can make a diag.? When the 2 vets can tell the same thing.....There was nothing ever covered in the guarantee about EIC just like 99% of them out there......But you can bet money my next purchase will have that in Bold writing....
Dont get me wrong I am pleased she has offered to replace the pup but I am really gun shy about the Whole thing right now..
SO I am faced with spend another 300 to fly this dog back or Just call it a loss?

 

[Russ]

It depends. I cannot vote in the poll without reading the guarantee in your contract with the breeder.

It appears you are a breeder. How does your contract read and how would you handle it?

Russ

 

[HarryWilliams]

You listed the breeders full name and place of residence. Please list your full name and place of residence. That way this POLL might not look quit so one sided!!! :? HPW

 

[B. A.]

You listed the breeders full name and place of residence. Please list your full name and place of residence. That way this POLL might not look quit so one sided!!! :? HPW

The original poster has provided his website, do you need more?

 

[Angie B]

It depends. I cannot vote in the poll without reading the guarantee in your contract with the breeder.

It appears you are a breeder. How does your contract read and how would you handle it?

Russ

Ditto!!! Seems like she's trying to work with you.... Granted at a added expense but them's the breaks.... Was EIC covered in your contract with the breeder????

What solid information did the breeder have about EIC with this particular breeding before it took place? Chances are not much or none. So is that the breeders fault??? Maybe you should have researched more in the way of pedigrees before making the purchase as far as genetic flaws????? Check once then double check before buying a pedigree. Buyer beware......

Angie

 

[M Remington]

She's being reasonable and unreasonable. First, the fact that she is willing to replace a dog that wasn't guaranteed (I would assume) against EIC is nice of her.

On the other hand, she wants the dog back thinking that you and your family are attached to it and will never give up the valued family pet. Who knows, you may later see the dog for sale as a started dog.

I have always made ANY major defect good (whether in the contract or not). At the end of the day, when I look in the mirror I don't want there to be any question as to whether I screwed someone or not.

 

[Granddaddy]

I've never understood why a breeder would want a dog back that cannot be trained or bred due to health issues. Spay/neuter should be enough. The only reason I can imagine is that the breeder may think you are now attached and don't want to have the dog put down or taken back - so they won't have to honor a guarantee. But in this case of EIC, neither the owner or the breeder knows that it is NFC Drake, yet it's implied by the fact that the breeder wants to give you another pup out of her bitch in a year or two - can't figure that either.

As for whether EIC is covered in the guarantee or not - the right thing for a breeder to do if a dog cannot be used for it's intended purpose (whether trials, HTs or hunting) due to inherited disease, is to be willing to work something out with the buyer for either a new pup or some portion of the purchase price refunded. In this case it seems the breeder has that inclination but I don't agree with the fly the dog back & examination. Just not enough information to vote, however.

 

[Russell Archer]

You just listed two great dogs and one legend as carriers of E.I.C., have I missed something? Has E.I.C. been proven to be genetic? I am sorry that your dog has this terrible "disorder" but, wouldn't it be better to know for sure how this "disorder" is contracted before you list names?

 

[Granddaddy]

You just listed two great dogs and one legend as carriers of E.I.C., have I missed something? Has E.I.C. been proven to be genetic? I am sorry that your dog has this terrible "disorder" but, wouldn't it be better to know for sure how this "disorder" is contracted before you list names?

Not much doubt EIC is inherited, just that the mode of inheritance is not yet known.

 

[Lisa S.]

I've never understood why a breeder would want a dog back that cannot be trained or bred due to health issues. Spay/neuter should be enough. The only reason I can imagine is that the breeder may think you are now attached and don't want to have the dog put down or taken back - so they won't have to honor a guarantee. But in this case of EIC, neither the owner or the breeder knows that it is NFC Drake, yet it's implied by the fact that the breeder wants to give you another pup out of her bitch in a year or two - can't figure that either.

As for whether EIC is covered in the guarantee or not - the right thing for a breeder to do if a dog cannot be used for it's intended purpose (whether trials, HTs or hunting) due to inherited disease, is to be willing to work something out with the buyer for either a new pup or some portion of the purchase price refunded. In this case it seems the breeder has that inclination but I don't agree with the fly the dog back & examination. Just not enough information to vote, however.

Does the owner want to spend the money to do the lab work the breeder says she is going to do? It sounds to me like she'd like to pay to have the tests done to prove or disprove the EIC diagnosis by owners vet. Bet that would cost more than the shipping amount back.

 

[splashdownoutfitters]

Russ I havent ever written anything in my contract about EIC just as the Breeder I purchased from did not ....I am not a breeder by anymeans
I have had a (meaning 1) in the last 4 yrs...Not a breeder by anymeans...I just wanted a pup out of the sire I chose and knew my bitch very well....Anyway....If one pup comes down with this Disease I will honor the choice of what ever the peoples want..Money or another dog....Im real gun shy right now about taking another pup....Due to the fact as not enough is know @ this point......

 

[Angie B]

Im real gun shy right now about taking another pup....Due to the fact as not enough is know @ this point......

So it's O.K., that you got a flawed pup with a genetic disease that no one knows enough about, to get compensation from the breeder. But it's not O.K. for the breeder, who has no more information than you did about this disease to have stipulations to a replacement???? Also that the contract that you agreed to, did not cover this genetic flaw. Where's the logic there????

Angie

 

[Russ]

Russ I havent ever written anything in my contract about EIC just as the Breeder I purchased from did not ....I am not a breeder by anymeans
I have had a (meaning 1) in the last 4 yrs...Not a breeder by anymeans...I just wanted a pup out of the sire I chose and knew my bitch very well....Anyway....If one pup comes down with this Disease I will honor the choice of what ever the peoples want..Money or another dog....Im real gun shy right now about taking another pup....Due to the fact as not enough is know @ this point......

Sorry, I went to the Splash Down Outfitters website and saw the puppy section. It looked like you were a regular breeder.

I assume you knew the existence of EIC before you purchased the pup and still bought it without a guarantee. Now you are chastizing the breeder by name in a public forum because she will go beyond the contract you accepted but with some conditions.

Where does the biggest ethical difficience lie??

Russ

 

[AmiableLabs]

She's being reasonable and unreasonable. First, the fact that she is willing to replace a dog that wasn't guaranteed (I would assume) against EIC is nice of her.

On the other hand, she wants the dog back thinking that you and your family are attached to it and will never give up the valued family pet.

I concur.

I'd keep negotiating.

 

[Richard Halstead]

Most guaratees that require you to surrender the dog are betting by the time problems occur you are so emotionally attached to the animal you won't give it up.

 

[Angie B]

First, the fact that she is willing to replace a dog that wasn't guaranteed (I would assume) against EIC is nice of her.

Absolutely.

On the other hand, she wants the dog back thinking that you and your family are attached to it and will never give up the valued family pet. Who knows, you may later see the dog for sale as a started dog.

That isn't how I read the original post. He stated that the breeder wanted the dog back to be examined. He said nothing about the breeder wanting to keep the dog before she would replace it. It's not the first time that a breeder wanted their vets to examine the dog before any arrangements were made. There is no test for EIC. It's diagnosis is made through elimination. As a breeder I would want my vet/vets to examine the dog before anything is done. If only to better my breeding program.

I have always made ANY major defect good (whether in the contract or not). At the end of the day, when I look in the mirror I don't want there to be any question as to whether I screwed someone or not.

I agree, a reasonable, amicable agreement can be reached by both parties.

I feel it's unreasonable to expect any breeder to cover EIC. At this time not enough is known about it. With CMA we knew what pedigrees through it more or less. But not so with EIC. If we don't have a test or enough information on what pedigrees throw it, how can a breeder be reasponsible?????

Being the devils advocate,

Angie

 

[frontier]

Was the dog purchased as a pup?

How did you determine that the dog had EIC? Have you performed the numerous expensive diagnostic tests to eliminate the other conditions that present similiar symptoms?

If you have not performed the diagnostic testing, I understand why the breeder would want the dog returned to her to have the diagnostic tests done to rule out other causes.

Usually there is more than one affected pup in a litter. You may want to ask the breeder if there are other affected pups reported to her from this breeding.

It's a devasting disease and I am sorry that you are experiencing it with your dog. However, I do understand why the breeder would like the dog returned to perform testing if this has not been done. I have experienced EIC with a few dogs over the years, and I certainly understand your frustration.

However, there is no diagnostic tests to determine carriers currently, so it can show up at any time in any litter and there is always that risk.

I would continue to work with the breeder toward a satisfactory resolution.

 

[ErinsEdge]

Most guaratees that require you to surrender the dog are betting by the time problems occur you are so emotionally attached to the animal you won't give it up.

That is true in the case of OFA's but in this case the condition can't be proven yet and it most likely wasn't in the guarantee and she has no obligation to do anything that is not stated in her guarantee. This is a case where the breeder is working with you. Look at it from the breeders standpoint: since there is no laboratory or genetic test to prove a condition, you can't give her a vet report stating it is certainly EIC. The inheritance is still unknown until the data is published. This is not like an OFA or CERF where it can be proven. She wants to have the dog back to make certain that it is that problem for sure in regards to her changing her breeding program. People have to realize no breeder has a crystal ball and when a dog who wasn't bred much gets nationally titled and everyone flocks to him to breed, it is going to take a few years for problems to surface. You have to also realize there is always that percentage of people out there that flat out lie until asked to prove a condition, and who will even try to get another dog because they like the first dog (and I am not implying that is the case here, but it has happened to me). I say kudos to the breeder.

 

[hhlabradors]

Re: EIC from 2004NFC X Lean mac Should the Breeder Buy Back&

I purchased a dog from a Lady in Peyton Co. about 1yr ago.. The dog being just a year old has what the Vet calls EIC....The dog in Question is sired 2004 NFC DRAKE by a Lean Mac and Rita reynolds Bitch....After asking " Mrs Breeder'' about this .She said she would replace with another lab in a Year or 2 by another FC sired stud to her bitch whom is running trails right now....Mrs bREEDER also wants the dog back to examine it...Why Cant I just for a spay and get 2 vets opinions instead of having to fly the dog back to Colorado and spending even more money...What would you guys do out there?
Why send the dog so she can make a diag.? When the 2 vets can tell the same thing.....There was nothing ever covered in the guarantee about EIC just like 99% of them out there......But you can bet money my next purchase will have that in Bold writing....
Dont get me wrong I am pleased she has offered to replace the pup but I am really gun shy about the Whole thing right now..
SO I am faced with spend another 300 to fly this dog back or Just call it a loss?

I find it interesting that the subject of the poll is "should the breeder buy the dog back" but the actual question is "should I have to send the dog back" It's not the same issue.

The circumstances are ones that weren't forseen, yet the breeder's willing to work with you on it. Count yourself fortunate - she wouldn't have to. I don't blame her for wanting more information in regards to what her breeding program has produced.

I also say "Kudos to the breeder." Count yourself lucky that you can get out of this for $300, if out of it's what you want. Dogs are gambles, every one of them, in some way. If you want to play, you have to assume some of the risk.

 

[Pasquatch]

You have to also realize there is always that percentage of people out there that flat out lie until asked to prove a condition, and who will even try to get another dog because they like the first dog (and I am not implying that is the case here, but it has happened to me). I say kudos to the breeder.

Years ago I talked to a long time breeder that was told one of her puppies (she had sold) had PRA. She was convinced her popular stud could not have produced this condition. She was certain it was not the pup she had sold - but could not prove it . She said all future pups would have Permanant ID. She was certain it was an attempt to discredit her stud.

I am not implying that this is the case either but you don't know the situations (or people) that the breeder of your dog has dealt with in the past. She may be a little "gun shy" herself.

Personally, I think you could have asked your question without naming names; Peoples or Dogs.