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Good Cockers can be found here too but they are not common.
I don't know if a single good Irish Setter exists.
I have not seen one recently but there are a few fanciers of working Irish Setters who produce smaller stature with close hunting spaniel type coats
 

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I have not seen one recently but there are a few fanciers of working Irish Setters who produce smaller stature with close hunting spaniel type coats
I have heard stories (for several years now) about people trying to resurrect the breed. Out-crossing to get some brains back and staying far away from the AKC. I don't know how much truth there is to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I think that is probably accurate. On the surface it seems the opposite. I think because I never see conformation Labs in the field but do see a few conformation Goldens.

It isn't working. I think most of the blame is on consumers. Goldens are in vogue among suburbanites. There is a high demand for pretty, but lazy, Golden retrievers to take on walks and give treats to.

At least the breed club is pushing for a standard that preserves the hunt in Goldens. I haven’t seen this level of commitment from them in years past, though that may be from inattention.

You’re probably right about demand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I have heard stories (for several years now) about people trying to resurrect the breed. Out-crossing to get some brains back and staying far away from the AKC. I don't know how much truth there is to it.
I read years ago that some were importing Irish from the old Soviet Union and Eastern Europe that still hunted, and labeled them Red Setters to distinguish them from the current at the time Irish Setters. Those Red Setters are still around I believe and come from older Irish Setter bloodlines.
 

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Good Cockers can be found here too but they are not common.
Somewhat au contraire, DP. True, you have to know where to look, but more incisively (and insightfully) know what to look for - does the photo of the little dynamo Eug's depicted above bear but marginal resemblance to what's commonly (in more ways than one) known on this side as a cocker spaniel? That's a cocker in the UK, but that's a "field bred cocker" on our terra cognito.

I'm a Sussex man - and Boykin man - which means I've handled over the last 25 years the least-worked spaniel breed and the hardest-working all-round spaniel breed, respectively. I'm still agreeing with norwester, if you commit to working a gundog, any gundog, and train them accordingly, you're going to end up with a serviceable animal for its original purpose (or even the purpose you aspire to with a pup). Sometimes it just takes a little more commitment and, you know, encouragement to get there. Sometimes you might find the encouragement comes from within, their instincts.

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MG
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·

Chuck, I've been in touch with Our Glenda this week talking ponies

puppies, Elizabeth R. (a/k/a QEII), and per usual, a little CFB. At last count from the confines of Taxachusetts, she's working with a neighbour's pet conformation Golden on basic obedience and having a doggone good time of it.

MG
Glad you are keeping up with her. I'm remiss, I haven't spoken to her in 3 or 4 months. I knew she was working on her daughters dog for obedience. Glad to see she has another project. As I recall, she grew up with horses, hence her interest.

Would love to see her, but I don't see a trip back east anytime soon.

 

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That’s just sad. That poor dog probably gets more treats in a day than my dogs get food.
The worst part is the majority of people watching probably think that’s what the lab should look like.
 

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The split between show dogs and field dogs is a common topic on this forum. So is English Labs vs "American" Labs (I guess that's what you'd call them).

Posted on Facebook Facebook လောဂ်အင်ဝင်ရန်, the Breed Education Committee for GRCA identified a couple of articles they'd provided regarding the breed standard for Golden Retrievers for Show Site magazine, a magazine devoted to show dogs Showsight November 2022. They do an excellent job of discussing what a Golden Retriever should look and act like, and I have to say I'm pretty tickled with their efforts. I commend the committee. The second article is titled Primarily a Hunting Dog, which is explicitly included early in the breed standard. Always a bugaboo of mine back when I was showing dogs, I always wanted to show outside in the rain so the dogs were wet. My dogs were hunting dogs, and you could really see it when wet. The contrast with some of the other dogs was stark, though when dry the judge had to feel them to determine that. The split in show vs field isn't as bad in Goldens as it is in Labradors, but its certainly there. At least for Goldens, the breed club is really trying to promote a Golden Retriever according to the breed standard - primarily a hunting dog in hard working condition.

The first articles ends with words from my buddy Glenda Brown whom many of you know and I think most of us will agree with her comments.. It also included a link to a Youtube video of a Scottish field trial
. I was struck with the terrain, but reminds me of some of the areas I hunt in eastern Montana.

Anyone that wants to see what an English Labrador Retriever looks like that can run a European field trial should take a look at some of these Labradors, of which there are several. There are the English Labradors I'm familiar with.

I thought the GRCA Breed Education Committee's work and that video was relevant so some of our recent discussions. Also that some of you might enjoy some validation regarding the breed split and what an English Labrador is.
Great artisans loved the video! I am new to Goldens. My pup will be 1 year old next month. Definitely different from all my Labs!
Neat to see that the winning Golden’s sire is out of my pup’s sire’s kennel in Germany (Kaliture)!!

looking forward to fun times in the field….posting work soon when eastern Idaho gets too much snow! But watching that video says this breed is perfect for our cover😂

Except for 21/2 hours I spent combing out foxtails and seeds! Ugh!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Use Show Sheen or...what is that other one?....Cowboy magic? before hunting. I use Show Sheen but I've seen the other referenced here. The burrs just comb out. Foxtails? Stay the heck out of foxtails. The potential repercussions are devastating. Cheat grass as well. Better to hunt somewhere else than risk your dog. And I don't think Show Sheen or the other help with grass awns.
 

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Well, it went from terrain akin to Montana ,Labrador retriever , showing a Golden in a field trial to setters and cockers, even Boykins and a Sussex, then coat and color ,and even magic stuff for protection, then the usual personal perceptions and preferences . You can learn loads of stuff on the internet .............It's your choice to separate the wheat from the chaff. Here you go, add in a German shepherd , instant fix, lolx
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