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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking for names of stud dogs that are great at marking and the drive to and from the bird. I believe some of the National Champions are great at marking, but more methodical retrievers. What about those that charge to the bird or blind and return with equal zeal? I have seen FC-NAF Cut A Lean Grade run and he might well fit this description. Any others? They can be retired, like FC-AFC HRCH Taylorlab Downtown DUSTY Brown MH or deceased (possibly FC-AFC Yellowstone'S TNT Explosion?) Thanks.
 

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LF,
The bitch plays such an intrical part of any breeding. It's tough to answer. Put a hard going sire with a hard going bitch, and you will potentially have some driven pups. Still not a given. Genetics IS a weird thing.

BTW: I can tell you that Grady is in fact one of the hardest goers I've ever seen.
 

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My YLM is by Dusty, and he is a very hard charger out and back, marks or blinds, land and water. Great working attitude, huge drive and desire, no quit in him. Excellent marking dog, and a great hunting dog upland or waterfowl. As a bonus, he has a gentle personality and is a perfect, mellow house dog. I will have a very hard time finding another dog like him someday!
 

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My YLM is by Dusty, and he is a very hard charger out and back, marks or blinds, land and water. Great working attitude, huge drive and desire, no quit in him. Excellent marking dog, and a great hunting dog upland or waterfowl. As a bonus, he has a gentle personality and is a perfect, mellow house dog. I will have a very hard time finding another dog like him someday!

Does that mean you want to keep him? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
LF,
The bitch plays such an intrical part of any breeding. It's tough to answer. Put a hard going sire with a hard going bitch, and you will potentially have some driven pups. Still not a given. Genetics IS a weird thing.

BTW: I can tell you that Grady is in fact one of the hardest goers I've ever seen.
David --- Thank you for you input. I do understand the bitch's contributions. If I have a hard driving bitch and want to preserve that attitude I want to breed to a hard driving male. If I want to temper that behavior I will want to avoid that male. And if I have a mild mannered bitch I want to add drive with a hard charging male. In my case I want the hard driving puppy and so am considering who the stud should be.
 

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Hey LF-

I have 2 hard driving FCs. Not only were they bred they way, they were trained that way. Some of the more "methodical" retrievers you may see out there have different trainers, who train for a more methodical dog, if you will. They are easier to handle. One second that you are asleep at the wheel with a barn-burner gets you going home sooner rather than later. So, you can't just judge by what you see in the field.

For what it's worth, Boo is a very hard charging dog... Willie was a hard charger in his younger days - - haven't had the pleasure to watch him run recently.

Just throwing the consideration of training out there to consider...
 

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My YLM is by Dusty, and he is a very hard charger out and back, marks or blinds, land and water. Great working attitude, huge drive and desire, no quit in him. Excellent marking dog, and a great hunting dog upland or waterfowl. As a bonus, he has a gentle personality and is a perfect, mellow house dog. I will have a very hard time finding another dog like him someday!
You could be describing my Dusty male! Turns 7 this month and still has style to spare!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey LF-

I have 2 hard driving FCs. Not only were they bred they way, they were trained that way. Some of the more "methodical" retrievers you may see out there have different trainers, who train for a more methodical dog, if you will. They are easier to handle. One second that you are asleep at the wheel with a barn-burner gets you going home sooner rather than later. So, you can't just judge by what you see in the field.

For what it's worth, Boo is a very hard charging dog... Willie was a hard charger in his younger days - - haven't had the pleasure to watch him run recently.

Just throwing the consideration of training out there to consider...
Thank you,
I did not know you could suppress a hard charging dog with training. Is this commonly done?

Which Willie are you referring to?
08 NFC TWO RIVERS LUCKY WILLIE ?
 

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We bred a nice "thinker" bitch (Stepper/Super Tanker dam) with a lot of desire/moderate pace, to Cosmo. The breeding produced about half "firebreathers" with sense, and the other half had the dam's pace with obvious smarts (3-FCs)

We then bred one of those "HOT" MH-Cosmo bitches to Shaq and had about the same; half "firebreathers" and the other have were more "thinker" types that had what I would consider a nice pace. Go figure.
 

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David --- Thank you for you input. I do understand the bitch's contributions. If I have a hard driving bitch and want to preserve that attitude I want to breed to a hard driving male. If I want to temper that behavior I will want to avoid that male. And if I have a mild mannered bitch I want to add drive with a hard charging male. In my case I want the hard driving puppy and so am considering who the stud should be.
Before putting a balls to the wall with a hard driven female, think also about the people you will sell the rest of the puppies to.

I would read this thread and you can see the problems that can happen to newby trainers on their first dog. http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81708
plus some of us prefer the methodical dog that is a team player.I've seen balls to walls and don't know where they are going
 

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Thank you,
I did not know you could suppress a hard charging dog with training. Is this commonly done?

Which Willie are you referring to?
08 NFC TWO RIVERS LUCKY WILLIE ?
Is it commonly done..... yes, with some trainers. It's their "style" so to speak.....


And yes, that's the Willie I was referring to.............
 

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Before putting a balls to the wall with a hard driven female, think also about the people you will sell the rest of the puppies to.

I would read this thread and you can see the problems that can happen to newby trainers on their first dog. http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81708
plus some of us prefer the methodical dog that is a team player.I've seen balls to walls and don't know where they are going



Nancy makes an excellent point. You need brains to go with a balls to the wall kind of dog.... otherwise, all you have is speed.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Before putting a balls to the wall with a hard driven female, think also about the people you will sell the rest of the puppies to.

I would read this thread and you can see the problems that can happen to newby trainers on their first dog. http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81708
plus some of us prefer the methodical dog that is a team player.I've seen balls to walls and don't know where they are going

Nancy, I am not thinking of over-the-top uncontrollable drive. I am thinking of a steady sit at the line, careful marking, followed by fast movement for the retrieve. I suspect on the average the hot-to-trot dogs don't title easily. Any other studs that fit this description? What about Chopper or Pow or...?
 

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Before putting a balls to the wall with a hard driven female, think also about the people you will sell the rest of the puppies to.

I would read this thread and you can see the problems that can happen to newby trainers on their first dog. http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81708
plus some of us prefer the methodical dog that is a team player.I've seen balls to walls and don't know where they are going
Field trials are not timed performance events. I would rather own or breed to a FC-AFC with the quality of sagacity...that highly ellusive intelligence that allows problem solving during a trial which comes from their natural intelligence and remarkable training with the right pro. I wish I could find the article published a few years ago describing sagacity in retrievers...I'll take a retriever with marking ability, sagacity, team player, and methodical over "balls to the wall" desire and drive any day as part of the overall package. :D And finding the bitch line that produces those traits is equally as important to me. That's the retriever of my dreams when I retire in a few years and finally have the time to play the white coat game...
 

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Stud has nothing to do with this. Its all in the bitch....any old stud will do....

/Paul
There's nothing wrong with a slow stud. The old slow but steady Chery over the Ferrari. Sigh, back to the taxes.
 

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Nancy, I am not thinking of over-the-top uncontrollable drive. I am thinking of a steady sit at the line, careful marking, followed by fast movement for the retrieve. I suspect on the average the hot-to-trot dogs don't title easily. Any other studs that fit this description? What about Chopper or Pow or...?
I think most titled dogs would fit that description unless they are older or have been screwed down too tight.
 

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As stated, the bitch!! is a very important part of a hard driving retriever with that said, I would look at a Cosmo breeding!! I'm very happy with my Cosmo son.
Dave Hare
 
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