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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 1 yr old labrador retriever is driving me crazy!! I know some is our fault, I have 2 young boys that aren't helping the situation.( not blaming it all on the boys) My problem is he wont fininsh his retreive . 3 times i have worked though the problem starting back at hallway then a check cord and then back to the open. it some times take a month to get him back on. I can get him to do all of his regular work easy enough .. back for a 200 yards -handsignal are great ,stop on the whisle is fine sit,stay heal all good. but why do I need to keep going back to the finish, he just wants to get close and then go around me. If you cant tell this is only my third retreiver but i have never had this problem before. and no I did not force fetch him probable should. but i never had to before, Thanks in advance
 

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I can get him to do all of his regular work easy enough .. back for a 200 yards -handsignal are great, stop on the whisle is fine sit, stay heel all good.
I did not see any mention of "here" being good. Is his recall (response to "here") solid?

If he isn't collar conditioned, the checkcord is your only source of control. He has established an expectation that needs to be "trumped". Don't take it off. There is no way he can go "around you" and get away with it if he is wearing a "long handle".
 

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My 1 yr old labrador retriever is driving me crazy!! I know some is our fault, I have 2 young boys that aren't helping the situation.( not blaming it all on the boys) My problem is he wont fininsh his retreive . 3 times i have worked though the problem starting back at hallway then a check cord and then back to the open. it some times take a month to get him back on. I can get him to do all of his regular work easy enough .. back for a 200 yards -handsignal are great ,stop on the whisle is fine sit,stay heal all good. but why do I need to keep going back to the finish, he just wants to get close and then go around me. If you cant tell this is only my third retreiver but i have never had this problem before. and no I did not force fetch him probable should. but i never had to before, Thanks in advance
At this point, if I were you, I'd be working on some formalized obedience and get that really crisp.

If he's not coming all the way to you on a retrieve, it's likely because your "here" or "recall" or "come"...whatever you want to call it, is not solid.

I personally would suggest that you focus on establishing some stricter standards on obedience. If you get the dog to come to you reliably when called, 100% of the time, then you can chain that together with the retrieve. You may be all set at that point, or you may want to work on some sort of conditioned retrieve (force breaking, force fetch) sort of setup...

Hang in there. I'd suggest that you have one primary trainer who focuses for now on the obedience (you) and that your kids certainly be allowed to play with the dog, but I'd try to keep them from giving obedience commands and mixing messages.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
as long as he doen't have something in his mouth he is great at "here" - I have used his e-collar with little effect. what tends to happen is that he sits or drops or both where ever he is. I wont say he test ready on a good day but he is very good . and then he just stops bringing the dummy home and it start all over again time. I am very frustrated Thanks for the reply
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys ! but really the only time he wouldn't come to the whistle we had a bear in the yard that morning and he could smell it everywhere lol. otherwise even if there is a new dog at the neighbors he is here in a flash. it is probable just the boys trying to get toys back and this is my first round with little guys and puppys at the same time. I don't know whats harder sometimes
 

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as long as he doen't have something in his mouth he is great at "here" - I have used his e-collar with little effect. what tends to happen is that he sits or drops or both where ever he is. I wont say he test ready on a good day but he is very good . and then he just stops bringing the dummy home and it start all over again time. I am very frustrated Thanks for the reply
His "here" is not that solid or he would come to you when you call him, regardless of whether he's carrying something in his mouth or not.

The e-collar is just a tool. Most of us use the e-collar to reinforce known, already trained commands. If your dog won't come to you when he's retrieving and you then "correct" him with the collar, you are probably misapplying the use of the tool. It is not a known command. Therefore you can't reinforce it with the collar.

I suggest you revisit obedience and get it solid. I think you will quickly find that with increasing levels of distraction, his recall or "here" is not as solid as you think. I'd just consider the retrieve as a type of distraction. Get him rock solid with minimal distractions then gradually increase distraction level.
 

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Thanks guys ! but really the only time he wouldn't come to the whistle we had a bear in the yard that morning and he could smell it everywhere lol. otherwise even if there is a new dog at the neighbors he is here in a flash. it is probable just the boys trying to get toys back and this is my first round with little guys and puppys at the same time. I don't know whats harder sometimes

I'd suggest you discontinue training in your yard and begin doing obedience work at other, less familiar settings. I think you will find that this is a distraction of its own and it will give you an opportunity to work on getting good, solid, crisp obedience.

Good luck and Happy 4th of July
 

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I don't let anyone play "fetch" with my dogs. I don't even let anyone use the command except me. I do this because I think it helps to avoid what you have described. I might be wrong but then again I have not experienced your problem.

It seems that the others may have hit on something---it seems like you do have to work on obedience.

Edit: I also believe that some behaviors just need more maintenance than others, depending on the dog. You may have that with your dog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
its hard! my boys want to be like me. and I am proud of that :) my 5 yr old wants to train and I don't know what happens while I am at work. so the old rock and a hard place. took the dog out today in a area we have only been to twice before and against all suggestion i let him run. he quartered, he came every time , he healed off lease, he sat, and stayed at command, all hand sinals were good but he dropped short twice ,once he finished the retrieve with some coxing and once he didn't ,that out of 8 retrieves 4 water and 4 land. all land retreives were good. I used the collar three times once on sit and once on fetch it up. i am not an expert collar guy and use it sparingly but he usaully gets the point . had to call him off a deer and used it the third time
 

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I agree, obedience is the answer here. But one trick I used early on was to run with my back against a wall or fence. There is no option to run around you then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK I hear the critism now, he didn't sit, he didn't come. he was at heal just not sitting the first time a told him and the deer ran right in front of us an 30yrds
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
please understand and no offence intended( the critism statement was writen while brain was writing his message, sorry if I seem defensive) I just wish you could see the dog work he's young but has all the tools it's just this one thing that get me. and it a huge thing for a duck guy like myself
 

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eyeguyd, I make my living training gun dogs. And the very first thing I do when someone brings me a dog is to ask what the dog knows. I almost always hear " He/she knows sit/here/stay". To which I immediately say "great...let's go for a walk in the field and you can show me"....and almost always, the wheels fall off and the dog acts like it knows very little. This is usually followed by "he does it great at home/must be excited about a new place/I don't know why he's not doing it here because he knows it". I explain that there is a difference between a dog knowing what you want and understanding that they always have to do it.

Your dog is sending a clear message that it knows what you want...but it still believes it has a choice. You've quit too early and moved ahead, before the dog has really formed a habit of consistently obeying. So...next question: What training program are you using?
 

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If this was his response when you used the ecollar, you surely did not collar condition correctly. THE dog must be on a leash when you first start using the collar, for every command.YOU HAVE to be in a POSITION TO SHOW HIM HOW TO TURN IT OFF for any given command and you have to condition each command individually ....DO NOT just start pushing buttons without doing work the the collar on leash first..
as long as he doen't have something in his mouth he is great at "here" - I have used his e-collar with little effect. what tends to happen is that he sits or drops or both where ever he is. I wont say he test ready on a good day but he is very good . and then he just stops bringing the dummy home and it start all over again time. I am very frustrated Thanks for the reply
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am using my own training program , and yes i might have gone to fast . I really don't know. I have tried to take it at the rate the dog was ready for. my training is a based what i have read( I read a lot) and first hand experience. I have been able to help friends dogs out more then once and my own dogs were good , the last one was great! really I mean, she was great! but am I not a pro great trainer, this dog will make me a good trainer or make me give it up, lol . i will always try again:)
 

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Just a reiterated suggestion, but in different words, rather than continuing to experiment on your dog with a method you're making up, why not take this one through a proven method, see how that works, and base what you do with subsequent dogs on that experience? Does that not stike you as a reasonable and humane course of action? There are numerous fine programs on the market. They aren't hard to find, and experienced trainers here will, no doubt, suggest some to you.

Best of luck,
Evan
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I used wolters for my first dog. i have read many others Dokken, Duffy, Williams, Knutson ect.. watched a few videos ect.... they all have a slightly different approach but the theme remain the same and they are all selling the book, so take the basics and use them . its not an experiment! I have trained dogs- good ones! maybe I was lucky . - please understand the dog is great just can't get him to finish the retrieve - is he perfect no. is he going to be a good gun dog.. darn right he will be . force fetch may be my only answer just never had to to that. I am very sorry that I have not put the question out in in a way that way easy to understand. Thanks to all who replyed
 

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Dude, I am a newbie but follow a proven methodology! Obviously your method is not working! Stop pushing back on all the help people are trying to give you and take some what has been very good advise. It seems to be much more of a problem of your dog "not finishing a retrieve" What is that??????

Unbelievable!

Good Luck!

PS Sorry Chris......Peanuts
 

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I used wolters for my first dog. i have read many others Dokken, Duffy, Williams, Knutson ect.. watched a few videos ect.... they all have a slightly different approach but the theme remain the same and they are all selling the book, so take the basics and use them . its not an experiment! I have trained dogs- good ones! maybe I was lucky . - please understand the dog is great just can't get him to finish the retrieve - is he perfect no. is he going to be a good gun dog.. darn right he will be . force fetch may be my only answer just never had to to that. I am very sorry that I have not put the question out in in a way that way easy to understand. Thanks to all who replyed
Good luck with your dog.

Maybe I'm viewing it wrong, but it feels to me like you've asked for help and suggestions, and each time something is offered, you've countered with a response essentially refuting the suggestions offered.

I can't tell if you're waiting for someone to offer a quick fix that feels good to you, or just what you're seeking.

I'm sure you will have a dog that makes you happy in the end.

If you have not properly collar conditioned your dog, I would suggest you do that. I would also suggest that you not give collar corrections for any command that the dog has not been thoroughly taught beforehand.

Good luck.

Chris
 
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