I just got the tri-tronics Flyway e-collar. Reading smartworks, he states that you need to find out what your dog's sensitivity level is to know where to set the collar for training. I started on continuous level one and my BLF pup responds to me without any verbalization. When I go to level two continuous she yelps. I assume that is too much pressure??
First time e-collar user
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Does your dog know basic obedience so that can correlate the ecollar correction with a proper response?
Nothing against Evan and his program, but I am not familiar with it. Therefore, I would recommend getting Lardy's Ecollar conditioning video so you can see the process in action. Watch it several times before working with your dog. Lardy does a nice job explaining the steps and demonstrating the process.
Vocalization is not necessarily an indication of when sufficient pressure has been applied. You only need to apply enough pressure to get the appropriate response to a learned command. I have one dog that rarely makes a noise when corrected, but I get the appropriate response. I have another that sounded like she was being skinned alive on a very low setting early in collar conditioning. You are conditioning the dog to tolerate and understand the collare correction. The first exposure to it can be a bit unsettling to both the dog and new trainer. Every dog is different and some are more vocal than others. Follow a systematic program. Get the advice of a pro or accomplished trainer if you have any doubts.
Good Luck!
If you have not done it yet, put the collar on your leg and see what it feels like. You will get a better appreciation for it.
Nothing against Evan and his program, but I am not familiar with it. Therefore, I would recommend getting Lardy's Ecollar conditioning video so you can see the process in action. Watch it several times before working with your dog. Lardy does a nice job explaining the steps and demonstrating the process.
Vocalization is not necessarily an indication of when sufficient pressure has been applied. You only need to apply enough pressure to get the appropriate response to a learned command. I have one dog that rarely makes a noise when corrected, but I get the appropriate response. I have another that sounded like she was being skinned alive on a very low setting early in collar conditioning. You are conditioning the dog to tolerate and understand the collare correction. The first exposure to it can be a bit unsettling to both the dog and new trainer. Every dog is different and some are more vocal than others. Follow a systematic program. Get the advice of a pro or accomplished trainer if you have any doubts.
Good Luck!
If you have not done it yet, put the collar on your leg and see what it feels like. You will get a better appreciation for it.
New to Collar
I highly recommend that if you are new to collar training to keep a detailed training log and keep track of your corrections. If you write everything down its like looking in the mirror. It will keep you accountable to your training process and tell you how much pressure your are applying. Shoot me a PM if you want more details on keeping records.
I highly recommend that if you are new to collar training to keep a detailed training log and keep track of your corrections. If you write everything down its like looking in the mirror. It will keep you accountable to your training process and tell you how much pressure your are applying. Shoot me a PM if you want more details on keeping records.
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I would highly recommend purchasing Mike Lardy's E-Collar Conditioning DVD http://www.ybsmedia.com/mikelardy.html
This DVD will answer a lot of your questions.
This DVD will answer a lot of your questions.
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Some dogs vocalize more than others so that's not always an accurate read. If your dog is responding appropriately on the lower level then leave it there. Evan has a great program, good luck.chme11l said:
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So you got your new collar and are ready to start. Got you material (video/DVD) reread it all and charge up your collar and grab the heeling stick you have been using all along. Sit down at the kitchen table and give yourself a thump on the leg with the same force you always use. Now turn on the new collar, hold it in your hand and start pushing buttons. You need to know, as the trainer exactly how much correction you are giving. You can easily tell how hard you hit with a stick, you need the same info about the new collar. Never give a dog a correction level in the field that it has not been exposed to in the yard. Never give a level of stimulation to the dog that you have not experienced yourself. It helps to have many immediate family members or close friends in the room as you do this. Not for you, but for them. Laughter is healthy.
Ken Bora
BTW I can take a high 5 momentary from my tri-tronics pro 500xl :shock: , never have been able to give myself a 6. 8) ....yet!
Ken Bora
BTW I can take a high 5 momentary from my tri-tronics pro 500xl :shock: , never have been able to give myself a 6. 8) ....yet!
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Right on Ken -- I too believe that if you're going to give it to the dog, you had better know how much correction it is.
I also believe that the dog must "understand" basic obedience first, not necessarily comply 100% of the time first w/o the collar. The collar just reinforces what the dog's been taught. I have the Tritronics Pro 200 with is essentially the same as the Flyway model. MY 10 mo lab takes his corrections at Level 2 - but all dogs are different (and I've never been higher than 3 on it). Reread the Smartworks book over and over - it's great material. The pup learns how to "turn off" the stimulation by collar conditioning. The e-collar is a great tool but can be very detrimental to the dog's willingness to learn if done improperly or carelessly.
I also believe that the dog must "understand" basic obedience first, not necessarily comply 100% of the time first w/o the collar. The collar just reinforces what the dog's been taught. I have the Tritronics Pro 200 with is essentially the same as the Flyway model. MY 10 mo lab takes his corrections at Level 2 - but all dogs are different (and I've never been higher than 3 on it). Reread the Smartworks book over and over - it's great material. The pup learns how to "turn off" the stimulation by collar conditioning. The e-collar is a great tool but can be very detrimental to the dog's willingness to learn if done improperly or carelessly.
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We're missing some important information here. How old is this pup? What conditioning are you doing? ("Sit", "Here", etc.) What level of training is your pup at?chme11l said:
Now let's talk about "too much pressure". Look on page 37 in Smartwork volume one.
"Continue calling the dog with the “Here” command, using continuous stimulus at increasing levels until you read that, for this dog, you have begun to approach too much pressure. With a variable intensity collar, especially the Tri-tonics Pro 500, the level of stimulus increases very gradually. Take advantage of this so that you can read your dog properly. You’re not doing this to see how much he can take. You’re doing it to ensure compliance. BUT, this is your first opportunity to see what his sensitivity level is, with regard to electrical stimulus. So, in a way, you are doing it to see how much he can take. But, there must be some point at which you find this out. He can’t tell you, “Okay, about there is enough”. He must show you in his responses to pressure. Reading him correctly is your our job.
Through this first opportunity to feel him out on his sensitivity you can begin to adjust the application of pressure to suit the dogs best interests. Most beginners use too little pressure, at first. Then, when they see the efficiency of using pressure effectively, they sometimes use too much. This is true, whether the forcing implement is an e-collar, a whip, or a rolled up newspaper."
A vocal response is often a poor indicator of a dog's threshold. Some dogs are very stoic, and would require a great deal of pressure to become vocal. They may have been reacting physically in a manner you desired well before any vocal responses showed up.
On the other hand, some dogs vocalize with tiny amounts of actual pressure, but may be failing to do the one thing they should as a result of the application of pressure; change their behavior.
That brings us back to my original questions about what you're doing with this dog. Other than making noise, is this dog responding to pressure by offering the change in behavior you're after?
Evan
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Good points made by Evan -- and his materials are recommended -- but I really have to add my $.02 to this discussion -- I'd agree with everybody that's posted about Mike Lardy's E-Collar Conditioning DVD -- it covers the whole conditioning process -- even walks through it with a young dog -- and that dog is truly the star of this DVD -- sadly Click is no longer with us
Evan,
She is 5 months old and I'm starting with the Here command. I have her at the point where she doesn't want to leave my side. I was just wondering how to read her when I go to level two on the collar. She doesn't yelp on level one but comes when I call. Do they get used to the stimulation after some point. If so, do you need to increase the level to get crisp responces. One level tow she yelps everytime and runs to me. How do you know when too much is too much.
Thanks!
She is 5 months old and I'm starting with the Here command. I have her at the point where she doesn't want to leave my side. I was just wondering how to read her when I go to level two on the collar. She doesn't yelp on level one but comes when I call. Do they get used to the stimulation after some point. If so, do you need to increase the level to get crisp responces. One level tow she yelps everytime and runs to me. How do you know when too much is too much.
Thanks!
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Yes. That's exactly why we call it conditioning. She'll not only get used to it, but will learn to function very efficiently with stimulus. She should be showing you a more crisp response to command as you go along.chme11l said:
Yes. Whether or not a dog vocalizes is only minimally relevant. It's a change in behvior you're looking for!chme11l said:
Evan
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