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When training a mature dog, how do you prefer to have the majority of your marks thrown?

  • Flat

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  • Angle

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Discussion Starter #1
In the discussion on "hip-pocket" marks, there was mention of some preference for having the majority of training marks being thrown flat vs angles. I think I understand where Evan was coming from.

What does everyone prefer and why? 8)

Does your preference change when training younger dogs?
 
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It Depends on a variety of factors....as a rule flat throws are harder to mark..It depends on distance, background and object being thrown...Flat marks also tend to skip when they hit the ground(bumpers) so the dawgs AOF and the actual place were the mark is might vary by several yards...also depending one what concepts you're working on..flat throws are ideal for concept A...... high arc throws for concept B and so on... I like a good mix....If I'm trying to "trick" my dawg a long(150yds+) terrain changing flat mark will do....If I want a boost in confidence a high arc throw with a white bumper against a dark background is best......For a Mature or advanced dawg a nice mix is best
 

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Peake said:
BellaDawg said:
..as a rule flat throws are harder to mark..
Huh??? :?
Peake
I think Bella is refering to the arc of the throw, instead of the angle from the gunner.
 

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I'm confused, I thought flat throws were thrown in the direction you were facing,(90 degrees from dog) versus angle back throws and angle in throws. I didn't know it referred to the arc of the throw.
 
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Yeah My bad, I thought he was refering to the arc of the throw...Not Its position realitive to the thrower.....Whoooooops anyway I never said iwas schmart
 

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Discussion Starter #7
flat throws were thrown in the direction you were facing,(90 degrees from dog) versus angle back throws and angle in throws
This is the intended meaning of my original question.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Easy there buddy. I could see how you misunderstood the original question, and I just wanted to clarify my intent. Peace :)

Now, about those throws...
 
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No, I'm an idiot :lol:


I'll stick to my original answer some what...A mix...I don't want the dawg getting used to always hunting behind the gunner or even with the gunner or in front of the gunner...I also like my thrower to vary the distance of the marks as well...Some close to him, some further
 
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I think some defining is needed here...

Generally, the definitions are the angle of the throw, if any, based on the position of the gun station RELATIVE TO THE HANDLER.

So if handler is at home plate and gunner is at pitchers station throwing to the LEFT...

A FLAT throw: goes to THIRD BASE
An ANGLE BACK: goes to short stop
An ANGLE IN: goes 1/2 way between third base and home (so I suppose the dugout)

A straight in throw, which I've never used in training nor do I intend to (except maybe in the case of a diversion bird thrown on the dog's return from a mark), would go right toward home plate.

Then there are variations of angle back and angle in based on the size of the angle. So we say things like "sharp angle back" or "slight angle back" and so on.

We don't usually mess with the arc and distance of the throw except in some odd situation where the gun station and location of the bird landing dictate a shorter or longer throw. Otherwise, I personally prefer as high and long as possible. but an average of each if someone can't do a super duper throw. In training, I want the highest probability of giving the dog every opportunity to get a good mark, so I like really nice big throws if possible.

The only time I'll do a bird that's thrown fast with little arc is on a breaking bird where I really want to get a correction or if I want to blow their mind on a wiper bird. other than that, I like "normal" throws.

I think the above are the "generally accepted" definitions, although I may be wrong. So if you're using definitions other than the above, you may want to clarify so everyone isn't talking about something different.

-Kristie
 

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kristie said:
I think some defining is needed here...

Generally, the definitions are the angle of the throw, if any, based on the position of the gun station RELATIVE TO THE HANDLER.

So if handler is at home plate and gunner is at pitchers station throwing to the LEFT...

A FLAT throw: goes to THIRD BASE
An ANGLE BACK: goes to short stop
An ANGLE IN: goes 1/2 way between third base and home (so I suppose the dugout)

-Kristie
Good description, Kristie.

That was exactly the interpretation on my mind when I read the poll question. I agree that a mix is important for most dogs. Generally, about 2/3 of my marking set ups contain nearly all flat throws, but of course that varies.

For puppies I like long flat throws that entice the pup to run to the fall rather than the gun. Otherwise I instruct my bird boys to throw their birds as if they were throwing ducks, even if they have pigeons or bumpers. Same arc, same distances from the gun, etc.

Evan
 

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evan you still have bird boys? hehehehe

I mix it up but I throw angle backs to teach the dog to run past the gun and not to hunt short (jmho)
 

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BIG DOG said:
evan you still have bird boys? hehehehe

I mix it up but I throw angle backs to teach the dog to run past the gun and not to hunt short (jmho)
Do your dogs tend to check down in the fall area too much? :shock: Are they for sale? :lol:

I have no problem getting my dogs to run through falls before checking down. I throw mostly flat falls to condition mine to check themselves, rather than running through falls.

Evan
 

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I've just seen some dogs check up before the A.O.F. , so I thought doing it that way (angle back) would keep the dog driving past the gunner
 
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