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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all starting force fetch with a 7 month old, he’s doing well one hold but as soon as I start to get him moving he starts to juggle the bumper in his mouth. Sitting he’s solid but for whatever reason he starts to move it around while walking. He generally doesn’t drop it but I’m not sure how to correct this on the move?

Also ear pinch doesn’t seem to affect him that much but he moves quickly like I believe he should while applying pressure. Should I apply more pressure until he shows a bit more discomfort?

This is my first time training and I’m using Lardys videos for him. He goes straight to ecolar after ear pinch but my boy isn’t collar conditioned yet? Should I be working on that after doing our force sessions?
 

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Hey all starting force fetch with a 7 month old, he’s doing well one hold but as soon as I start to get him moving he starts to juggle the bumper in his mouth. Sitting he’s solid but for whatever reason he starts to move it around while walking. He generally doesn’t drop it but I’m not sure how to correct this on the move?

Also ear pinch doesn’t seem to affect him that much but he moves quickly like I believe he should while applying pressure. Should I apply more pressure until he shows a bit more discomfort?

This is my first time training and I’m using Lardys videos for him. He goes straight to ecolar after ear pinch but my boy isn’t collar conditioned yet? Should I be working on that after doing our force sessions?

You need to rewatch your Lardy if you think he goes straight from ear pinch to ecollar.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I meant as far as pressure, I know there’s the “stick” pressure and a lot more steps. I was looking more to find out if it’s going to be a problem if I collar condition after or skip until he is conditioned. The issue is he’s not collar conditioned and the collar is a ending step in lardys FF.
 

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I meant as far as pressure, I know there’s the “stick” pressure and a lot more steps. I was looking more to find out if it’s going to be a problem if I collar condition after or skip until he is conditioned. The issue is he’s not collar conditioned and the collar is a ending step in lardys FF.
Like i said, you need to rewatch. Nothing is out of line, and its all covered.
 

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Walking fetch is next watch the video you spent the money on it
My BLF had the sloppy mouth while walking also but it cleaned up i wouldnt get to crazy over it just stop her heel her to your side and pop her under her chin and give the hold command she will figure it out. Its a good eaybto burn a dog out working hold for to long
 

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Sloppy mouth can be fixed...

Grab the end of the rope on the bumper while you have your dog walking/holding at heel. Keep light tension on it. Most likely he will drop the bumper and you can give him a correction for dropping.

Also - do the 'rope tension' trick when the dog is sitting/holding first so that he fully understands what is happening when you move to heel/hold.

Tapping under the chin has never worked for me - At least not to my satisfaction. I prefer to press down on the top of the muzzle. It seems to encourage a 'hold' response. (I think from a physiological standpoint it does).
 

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Sloppy mouth can be fixed...

Grab the end of the rope on the bumper while you have your dog walking/holding at heel. Keep light tension on it. Most likely he will drop the bumper and you can give him a correction for dropping.

Also - do the 'rope tension' trick when the dog is sitting/holding first so that he fully understands what is happening when you move to heel/hold.

Tapping under the chin has never worked for me - At least not to my satisfaction. I prefer to press down on the top of the muzzle. It seems to encourage a 'hold' response. (I think from a physiological standpoint it does).
Well said i should of went into detail but you covered it
 

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So if you look at the title of your thread,,the topic... It states Force fetch/hold.. so the following is some out takes as to what Lardy states about the HOLD step..

" Start by placing the bumper in your dogs mouth as she sits by your side. You may need to pry her mouth open toget the bumper in. Say "fetch" when you put the bumper in,but do not expect her to actually reach for it. Use the lead attached to the choke collar,ot keep your hand underthe collar to prvent her from moving aaway from your side, Say "HOLD" when you get the bumper in her mouth and ENCOURAGE O GOOD HOLD RESPOSE WITH PRAISE!!'

"It is an important TRAINING PRINICIPLE that a command be TAUGHT before pressure is used to ENFORCE the command! DONT apply pressure for refusals to HOLD untill you feel you have adquatly taught ythe dog what HOLD means.."

'The final stepof HOLD" training is to have the the dog walk at heel while holding the the bumper. Even if she is reliable while sitting ,your dog will probably spit the pumper out as soon as she moves off the sit position. You need to correct her as soon as she drops the bumper. PLACE THE BUMPER BACK IN HER MOUTH AND TRY TO MOVE FORWARD AGAIN, while reminding her to hold.."


So,,if the hold is just a bit sloppy, and she is rolling it as she walks, but doesnt spit it out or drops,, You need to make a sdecision as to what battle yo want to fight... You COULD as she walks reach down, and tap the bumper out of her mouth with your hand, (or use your knee to bump it out of her mouth causing her to drop) then stop, pick the bumper back up and place it back in her mouth, reminding her to hold..

Here is what Lardy says about the final anaylisis of the HOLD command..


"As soon as she will hold RESONABLY well while going through BASIC OBEDIENCE DRILLS, you can move on to the EAR PINCH.. A very trainable dog will complete the HOLD training in just a few days. YOUR DOGS HOLD RESONSE DOESNT HAVE TO BE 100% perfect-- that will come AFTER the ear pinch proceedure"..

BUT,,, The HOLD step must be relativly solid before moving on...

Some trainers dont teach formal HOLD! But,, YOU stated you are following Lardy!! He does!..

Dont get in a a hurry to move forward in the progression of steps, especially with Force Fetching your first dog..

HOLD should be TAUGHT first without pressure ENFORCE!!! You havent Taught the dog how to deal with PRESSURE yet.. (How to turn it "On and "off"..

make sure your HOLD training is resonably solid before moving on to EAR PINCH! ......the next step..

I find the Lardy raining Articles that were originally published in RETRIEVER JOURNAL , are especially helpful as to explaination of each steps.. They are easily found at his site...
 

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EAR PINCH starts after a solid HOLD command is TAUGHT..

Ear pinch starts with the bumper right in front of the dogs face,,and progresses towards the ground in front of the dogs feet... It teaches to dog about PRESSURE and FORCE of HOLD. How to turn the Pressure (FORCE) "Off" through compliance.. It willimprove a somewhat sloppy hold,just due to the dog being compelled to get the bumper in its mouth through avoidance of the ear pinch..

Make sure ALL your pror steps before Ear Pinch are solid before starting..

Her obedience, (SIT) and HOLD should be solid... ESPECIALLY SIT! You want a nice calm dog sitting at your feet when you start.. Both dog and TRAINER should stay calm through the process..
 

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EAR PINCH comes before Walking Fetch and IT (ear pinch) must be solid before progressing..
 

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Its a delicate balance between holding too soft, and teaching a dog to hard mouth. I generally knock the bumper out of my dogs mount if they get lazy, and immediately pinch and tell them fetch. I do not teach a formal "hold" command, but instead teach fetch this way as to teach that anytime the bird/bumper/etc comes out of mouth, pressure and fetch accompany it until I say give. I only knock it a few times, and never back to back.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok thanks for all the info everyone like I said it’s my first time doing this. The dog has hold down even when walking, I was just wondering if it was ok to go to ear pinch when he’s sloppy on walking hold. I am confident that he understands hold because he does not drop the dumper while walking.

i moved to ear pinch because lardy said it doesn’t have to be perfect. Bit after reading your posts should I go back to correcting the sloppy hold on heel? Or correct it during ear pinch?

I was wondering about ear pinch pressure because it just seems like it doesn’t really bother him? I just don’t want to over due it.

Also thanks for the input and patience.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sloppy mouth can be fixed...

Grab the end of the rope on the bumper while you have your dog walking/holding at heel. Keep light tension on it. Most likely he will drop the bumper and you can give him a correction for dropping.

Also - do the 'rope tension' trick when the dog is sitting/holding first so that he fully understands what is happening when you move to heel/hold.

Tapping under the chin has never worked for me - At least not to my satisfaction. I prefer to press down on the top of the muzzle. It seems to encourage a 'hold' response. (I think from a physiological standpoint it does).
what is the rope tension trick?
 

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Ok thanks for all the info everyone like I said it’s my first time doing this. The dog has hold down even when walking, I was just wondering if it was ok to go to ear pinch when he’s sloppy on walking hold. I am confident that he understands hold because he does not drop the dumper while walking.

i moved to ear pinch because lardy said it doesn’t have to be perfect. Bit after reading your posts should I go back to correcting the sloppy hold on heel? Or correct it during ear pinch?

I was wondering about ear pinch pressure because it just seems like it doesn’t really bother him? I just don’t want to over due it.

Also thanks for the input and patience.
Yes you can go on, getting corrections for dropping it during ear pinch is golden, much better than a perfect hold in my opinion.

Force fetch is less about teaching them to fetch and more about teaching them to turn off pressure, if he doesn't feel it as pressure, you're not pinching hard enough or not pinching inside the ear far enough, much more tender the further you go in. I pinch with my thumbnail and use the buckle of my dogtra collar. I saw dogtra specifically cause they have a very pronounced buckle.
 

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Baby steps

Start with just having the dog take a step or two from front sit position.
Say "here", dog takes a step or two, "sit" "hold"

Be prepared to keep bumper in mouth with your hand.

Gradually work your way into going through your basic obedience commands with the bumper in the pups mouth.

If you are following Lardy then follow him. Follow the progression exactly as laid out. It's laid out that way for a reason.
 
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