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Never have run into this problem while force fetching. I started dog last week on force fetching with first getting the hold and then using ear pinch for the fetch command. Everthing was going well and my dog was progressing until I started to place the dummy on the table top ( I start force fetch with dog on a table) but then he refuses so I have to use the ear pinch.

He will go for the dowel, dummy, stick or what ever I am holding when given fetch without an ear pinch. As soon as I place the dummy on table he refuses. So it becomes an ear pinch which makes it hard for him to go down for the dummy while pinching the ear.

Looking for suggestions.

Lindsey
 

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Is the dog that you are force fetching now of a different sort of pedigree than what you are used to? I figure that could be the case, or someone is getting their leg pulled.
 

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Picking the bumper off the table is the hardest part of FF for the pup to compute. Up to this point the pup has always taken the bumper from your hand.
Slow this process down so it is a gradual progression to picking the bumper off the table.
Start with the bumper in front of the pup, then off to the side, then half way to the table at the side, then just the end of the bumper on the table at an angle , then a little less angle on the table, and finally while your only holding the end or rope of the bumper while laying on the table, finishing with the bumper laying on the table without your hand.
Take the time needed for pup to understand each progression.
This method should make the pup stand up and go get the bumper and then return to sit with the bumper in his mouth. This means the pup can no longer be short tied but has the freedom to move on the table to fetch the bumper.
Take your time and don't forget the praise................enjoy....... :)
 

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When you were saying fetch and the dog was grabbing the bumper, was your hand on his or her ear?

The reason I am asking is any dog that is a retrieving fool is going to grab the bumper if it is placed in front of him regardless of whether anything is said or not.

One of the steps with my last dog, was to put my fingers on the ear just to put a stop to that. Once the fingers are on the ear regardless of whether someone is pinching or not, it is no longer a game. I put the fingers on the ear, and placed the bumper in the mouth without pinching for a while while giving the command. It is the same thing people do with hold, you just start switching to a different word, and when you figure the dog should know what to do you start pinching their ear ever so slightly.

The way I did it, the dog always knows what it is suppose to do but gets challenged along the way.

The way I read your post, the dog was grabbing the bumper on its own until it was on the table, and then you started pinching the ear.
 

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Lindschesapeake said:
Never have run into this problem while force fetching. I started dog last week on force fetching with first getting the hold and then using ear pinch for the fetch command. Everthing was going well and my dog was progressing until I started to place the dummy on the table top ( I start force fetch with dog on a table) but then he refuses so I have to use the ear pinch.

You're just lucky you haven't run into it before. It's a common enough difficulty for the dogs that methods to overcome it are addressed in just about every explanation of "how to force fetch" I've ever read. Do you have a book or video you can refer to for suggestions for dealing with this?

There's nothing wrong or particularly difficult about your dog, you'll just have to spend some time and work through it. Break it down into smaller steps. One week is pretty speedy to be pushing a dog through FF. Don't be in such a hurry to get that dummy flat on the table and get your hand off of it.
 

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I don't know that I have FF a dog that did not have that same transition issue. Take the above advice...SLOW DOWN...transition gradually.
 

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In my experience you should be pinching the dog before saying fetch 100% of the time. Not doing so (Especially while on the table) voids the conditioning of the dog and will lead to confusion.

Since FF is a repetitive pressure, command, release pressure, process you are short-circuiting the training by sometimes not pinching. If you continue (especially with a good retriever) your dog will go through all the motions but in the end not be conditioned to retrieve.
 

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A_Fever said:
In my experience you should be pinching the dog before saying fetch 100% of the time. Not doing so (Especially while on the table) voids the conditioning of the dog and will lead to confusion.

Since FF is a repetitive pressure, command, release pressure, process you are short-circuiting the training by sometimes not pinching. If you continue (especially with a good retriever) your dog will go through all the motions but in the end not be conditioned to retrieve.
Agreed. Continuous pressure is needed until the object is in mouth. Especially when the object for the fetch is moved to a new position. Move on to another "position" when they literally "pull" you to Fetch the object.

:idea: You might want to try the "Fetch Up" before the "Fetch Down". They seem to transition and catch on to the whole force concept much better using this step right after the "Front Fetch". You also have more control for making sure they open their mouth for the grab.
 

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I'm sure everyone knows what is meant in the quote, but there is a little typo. It says "pinching the dog before saying fetch".

I've seen people use the word 'fetch' before force fetch to teach the word and they do very well with their dogs. I haven't done that per se, but I have rolled the bumper in the mouth when the dog was not accepting it with the word 'fetch' without a pinch to teach the word a little. I got that from a Dennis Voight article. I'd say he is a successful trainer. Something like that is also advised in the Twenty Minute Retriever.

During the force fetch, I'm pinching every time also, so I agree with that. I just saying depending on who you are, you can say 'fetch' with a puppy and not damage him down the road. I was a little suprised to learn that.
 
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