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OK here's the run down 8 month lab thats has been to a pro for obiedence and CC and started force fetch she's not there anymore and we will leave it at that. fast forward to today. She has been on the table with ear pinch for 2.5 weeks and doing really well she is starting to try to beat the pinch on the fetch command. When do you transtion from ear pinch to collar pressure? I have read a few things this is not my first dog but it is my first that I am forcing. When do you transition to the ground for fetching off the ground then to walking fetch can anyone recommend any good articles for reading up on this. She is solid on obedience and CC. She tends to be on the softer side so it is not taking much pressure to get her to comply.

Does anyone here run marks during force? I have not because I don't think it is fair to try to get her to comply when she has only been on the table.


Thanks

Tommy
 

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OK here's the run down 8 month lab thats has been to a pro for obiedence and CC and started force fetch she's not there anymore and we will leave it at that. fast forward to today. She has been on the table with ear pinch for 2.5 weeks and doing really well she is starting to try to beat the pinch on the fetch command. When do you transtion from ear pinch to collar pressure? I have read a few things this is not my first dog but it is my first that I am forcing. When do you transition to the ground for fetching off the ground then to walking fetch can anyone recommend any good articles for reading up on this. She is solid on obedience and CC. She tends to be on the softer side so it is not taking much pressure to get her to comply.

Does anyone here run marks during force? I have not because I don't think it is fair to try to get her to comply when she has only been on the table.


Thanks

Tommy
There is a good 4 part series on Waterdog.com given by pro Rody Best. It will cost you a subscription, but he does a very good job of explaining things and what can come up during the process.

Barry
 

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She has been on the table with ear pinch for 2.5 weeks and doing really well she is starting to try to beat the pinch on the fetch command. …
Every dog is different of course, but 2.5 weeks on ear pinch and still on the table is a long time.

… When do you transtion from ear pinch to collar pressure? …
After you have completed walking fetch, stick fetch and collar conditioning. (Your pro CC’d before I do)

… When do you transition to the ground for fetching off the ground …
I’m FFing right now and I moved to the ground on day three. It’s a gradual process… First you put the bumper in the dog’s mouth, then the dog opens its mouth, then require the dog to reach for the bumper, then put the bumper close to the ground, then on the ground (you can step on one end to tilt it up and help the dog). Each phase should get success before the next. If you get a refusal, don’t just keep pinching the ear harder, be quick to simplify (if refusal from ground, step on it to tilt it; if refusal from tilted, pick it up, etc..)

… then to walking fetch …
As soon as fetch from ground is reliable move right into walking fetch. When walking fetch is reliable (fetching with compulsion even when you just brush the ear), move to stick fetch.

… can anyone recommend any good articles for reading up on this…
Yes, I like the Lardy articles from RJ (Volume 1). Also, I love the FF sequence in Lardy’s TRT 2nd edition. To see the video footage of Mike FFing is much better than reading about it.

… She tends to be on the softer side so it is not taking much pressure to get her to comply …
Maybe it is taking so long to get off the table because you are not applying enough pressure. Impossible to say without seeing the dog, but if she was complying, you’d be off the table well before 2.5 weeks.

… Does anyone here run marks during force? …
Absolutely I run marks during FF. Running marks is important to keep the dog’s attitude up during FF. The only instance when I stop doing marks is when the dog is mishandling the birds during marks. By mishandling, I’m talking about dropping the bird several yards from the line, playing with or mouthing the bird heavily, etc. This doesn’t mean the dog must deliver to hand. You should try to encourage a hold on delivery, but don’t get into a FF session if the dog drops the bird. Just pick it up and move on to the next. You should not enforce the hold and delivery to hand until FF is complete. You won’t set the dog back in FF training if the dog drops a few birds at your feet on delivery.
 
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