[43x]

I noticed that the video shows the dog getting nicked 3 times when force to pile, the first time When the dog is sent on land, the second time when he's in the middle of the pond, and the last time just before he reaches the pile
What is the reasoning ?

Also when the dog is doing the swim by when he reaches the exit point a verbal back command is given to drive the dog on land several yards before calling him back ? Again any thought on why this is done ?

Thanks

 

[dpate]

I know he mentions he wants the dog to get in the habit of driving out of the water and not thinking he's done when he get out of the water and reaches land. I like the idea.

I can't comment on the forcing three times to the pile. I guess his thought is there are three sections to the pile work 1. land 2. water 3. land again.

EDIT: I guess I can comment but I don't know his reasoning.

 

[Howard N]

That's the only places there are when forcing water.

1. Land at the start before the dog gets to water. I include the entry.

2. En-route in the water before the dog gets to land.

3. Right near the pile maybe on land or when the dog is getting out, if you have the pile a few yards back from the water's edge. It's good to set it up this way, especially near the end of swim by, but not all ponds have a place you can do this.

Where else can you force that isn't one of these?

 

[TIM DOANE]

Yes the dog is asked to drive out the end to keep them out of the habit of stopping on the shore line. Also so when the dog is recalled he / she can return to the handler in a straight line rather than run around the corner of the pond. Another bad habit.

 

[TIM DOANE]

Force Training is just that TRAINING. The dog must be conditioned to driving back when the back command is combined with force. You do this when the dog is in route to a known destination so that it can easily understand. This is done on land before water. By the time you arrive at swim by the dog understands quite well if you have done your prvious force work completely.

These drills are done to condition the dog to force. You want all the little battles to come up right here in the swim by pond if possible. When running a water blind with a long entry you may have a dog break down to avoid going in the water. If it becomes common you may want to force the dog on land before the entry. The dog needs to have experienced this (be conditioned to) before.

You may have a dog struggle to cast back while in the water. Again if if gets to be a problem you have the tool of force to drive the dog back. This was taught on land and then taught again in the water during swim by. A properly conditioned dog will respond properly.

And once again you may have trouble getting your dog to drive out and continue on line after exiting the water. Same deal, you conditioned the dog to being forced back and should be able to cope with it.

To me this is the reason for nick on land/water/land.

With all that being said I also think many a good dog gets improper training when it comes to force training. Some get way to much some way to little. The trainer has a resopnsibility to get it just right when using a program that involves force. It needs to be fair to the dog which means the dog must understand and intensity levels need to be right. Not to much and not to little. That is the hard part and the reason Rick made the DVD's He uses dogs that are learning and allows you to see him teach in hopes that we can get it right. I feel he made a great product for us all.

 

[TIM DOANE]

BTW I just watched Fowl Dawgs 4 last night and think it is a very good addition to the set.

 

[43x]

That's the only places there are when forcing water.

1. Land at the start before the dog gets to water. I include the entry.

2. En-route in the water before the dog gets to land.

3. Right near the pile maybe on land or when the dog is getting out, if you have the pile a few yards back from the water's edge. It's good to set it up this way, especially near the end of swim by, but not all ponds have a place you can do this.

Where else can you force that isn't one of these?

The dog was being nicked 3 times on 1 send ?

 

[dpate]

For comparison, Lardy does nick on the send, and in the water on the same retrieve but the forcing is "light". He says some similar to "one or two days of light forcing in the swimby pond are all you need". (note: this refers not the entire swimby process, just to the force to the back pile)