[Buzz]

One of my training partners has some line manner problems at trials. One is creeping, and the other is front seating. I have a bit of a front seating problem myself, but it isn't really bad yet...

We don't really see this in training, but the "sit means sit" thread got me thinking that there might be some things that we are seeing in training that need to be corrected. After-all, I hear all the time, my dog never creeps or breaks in training, but is trial wise. What I got from that other thread was that you need to have a very very high sit standard in training, and that will translate to good line manners at a trial.

I have noticed that my dog, even at club trials or club hunter's stakes - if a single is thrown, he will come back and heel very nicely to deliver and wait for the next mark to be thrown. If a multiple goes down, when he's coming back with a bird, he's looking over his shoulder to the next bird he wants to pick up. It seems he's so intent on getting the next bird, he'll turn around and sit down maybe 3-5 feet in front of me. I need to tell him heel 3 or 4 times, he'll back up a few inches with each command.

So, if I don't see this in training, are there any little things I can look for to correct in training? Are there signs to look for that could indicate that the dog is even thinking of front seating me? Do I give him a "here nick" when he's looking over his shoulder to the next mark in training? Do I correct for a slow sit upon his return with the bird?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[lablover]

When he approaches after picking up the first bird, start backing up, calling his name, or come in whistles, behind the line if necessary. The object being to get him to come to you, not his idea of where the line is.

 

[DRAKEHAVEN]

Start picking the dog up at the trial if it violates the rules.

It may be a little spendy in the short run but, be less frustrating in the long run.

John
________
penny stocks

 

[twall]

If there are still more than one bird still down reheel him and line him up for the other bird. Slow way down in sending your dog. Waiting 30 seconds may seem like an eternity but it isn't. Since some of these are club events can you run out of contention and do some training??

Tom

 

[Buzz]

Since some of these are club events can you run out of contention and do some training??

Tom

Yes, but I believe that heeling sticks and electric collars are prohibited. Severity of corrections must be limited.

I believe you could run out of contention using a choker and short tab, so you could go get the dog, and issue a correction when picking him up.

 

[Bubba]

Will he seat on a duck?

Just wondering regards

Bubba

 

[Sabireley]

Will he seat on a duck?

I wondered how long that would take. That is why I looked at this thread :wink:

 

[Uncle Bill]

One of my training partners has some line manner problems at trials. One is creeping, and the other is front seating. I have a bit of a front seating problem myself, but it isn't really bad yet...

We don't really see this in training, but the "sit means sit" thread got me thinking that there might be some things that we are seeing in training that need to be corrected. After-all, I hear all the time, my dog never creeps or breaks in training, but is trial wise. What I got from that other thread was that you need to have a very very high sit standard in training, and that will translate to good line manners at a trial.

I have noticed that my dog, even at club trials or club hunter's stakes - if a single is thrown, he will come back and heel very nicely to deliver and wait for the next mark to be thrown. If a multiple goes down, when he's coming back with a bird, he's looking over his shoulder to the next bird he wants to pick up. It seems he's so intent on getting the next bird, he'll turn around and sit down maybe 3-5 feet in front of me. I need to tell him heel 3 or 4 times, he'll back up a few inches with each command.

So, if I don't see this in training, are there any little things I can look for to correct in training? Are there signs to look for that could indicate that the dog is even thinking of front seating me? Do I give him a "here nick" when he's looking over his shoulder to the next mark in training? Do I correct for a slow sit upon his return with the bird?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Hi Buzz,

What does Steve advise? He's had these situations many many times I'm sure.

Doubt anyone would advise any type of correction as a dog looks over it's shoulder at the next bird it wants to retrieve. Most of us look for a dog that is that "involved". That said, even if the dog indicates which bird it would like to get next, doesn't mean the handler doesn't have the right to change it's mind, should the selection sequence of the test so dictate. Of course, that must be trained before attempted, as we all know.

Back to the main point...sitting where you want the dog to sit. Train it like a reverse 3-handed handling exercise...keeping the 'marks' close by. When the dog is sent for a bumper, back up and change the 'send' line. Or go sideways a few steps, and require the dog to heel along side you, making it as precise as you want. No collar stuff here, just a sit stick correction when needed.

After several sessions of 'teaching' the dog where it belongs, proof it by adjusting after the dog has aligned itself properly. This gets back to the Ted thread where Evan was referring to 'thinking' sessions.

When the dog aligns to your side properly, just back up a couple steps, or move sideways so the dog has to readjust to your side. When this is getting done without giving a command, you can be pretty sure the dog is now thinking about where it belongs in relationship to YOU...not the line it was sent from previously.

This dog may still look over it's shoulder when returning with a bird, but as it nears you, it will then remember it must position itself properly near you to present the bird.

Some handlers have a tendancy to align their body towards the next mark they would like the dog to go after. IF your dog is fully trained in primary/secondary selection, this can be done. But if your dog is determined to go after the bird it has in mind, it's often costly to try to change that thinking, especially if the two remaining selections are somewhat tight. The handler has to know the dog and it's training to make that call.

If instead, you face where the dog came from, have the dog line up on you, looking back towards the fall it just picked up, and then before removing the bird, move to face the mark you want the dog to go to next. Having trained the dog to move with you, will now get it to concentrate on that AOF, as you remove the bird and send the dog. Just that minor amount of readjustment may have cleared the dog's mind of wanting to go after the bird it had intended to go for. But, again, this needs to be consistently trained before you would attempt it in a trial or test.

Teaching the dog to "think" in these terms works better IMHO than the often used 'NOing' off a bird. This can work well for leaving the diversion bird lay, while going for the remaining mark etc.

Another area many of us let down on our consistancy for staunchness is when we are hunting. I know I fall into this category. Hunting is such a great training grounds for teaching steadiness, but if we get caught up in the excitement ourselves, the dog's training will suffer. Hunting with a buddy, where one of you keeps the dog in mind first, is imperative if you don't want to "detrain" what you have worked so hard to accomplish.

BUT, what we can't do in a trial setting, we CAN in hunting. Keep the collar on the dog, so it knows it's in training. And a simple reminder of "SSSSIT", and "MARK" as the birds start approaching, keeps the dog's mind on it's learned training. If a couple of hard corrections are needed, then you have the tools in place to do it, and the dog will learn to curb it's enthusiasm, so it stays in the "box" of what it's been taught.

UB

 

[Angie B]

A line mat.....

Angie

 

[Dale]

Will he seat on a duck?

I wondered how long that would take. That is why I looked at this thread :wink:

Me too !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Buzz]

UB, good stuff. Thanks a lot for the input.

I haven't talked to Steve about it yet. I'll run it past him next time I call about Raven. If he has any interesting ideas, I'll post them up. I have also gotten some good stuff by PM, thanks guys!

I think sometimes we get really focused on what's happening out in the field, to the detriment of line manners. Yesterday I was running singles, we only had two gunners in the field. He picks up the first mark, delivers the bird, and focuses on the second gunner. I signal for the mark, he watches it down, focused on it for about a second, then turns back to the first gunner looking for another mark. :? I need to really work on mechanics at the line. 8) :evil: