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FT judging scenario

11611 Views 131 Replies 35 Participants Last post by  Peter Balzer
You are one of the two judges. Contestant calls for birds. After the first bird hits the ground you can plainly hear the contestant say "sit" to their dog. Your co judge does not hear anything.
For this scenario let's say the other two birds hit the ground and the contestant gets their number from the judge who did not hear anything.
You were the judge that did hear contestant talk to the dog.
What do you do?
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Is it common for judges to come to an agreement on these sort of scenarios before an event?

examples might include
see the handler intimidate the dog
see the handler touch the dog
These are not rule violations so I don't know what the agreement or scenario would be.
touching the dog to prevent breaking is. to make the dog drop a bird.

25. No handler shall (1) carry exposed any training equipment (except whistle) or use any other equipment or threatening gestures in such a manner that they may be an aid or threat in steadying or controlling a dog; (2) hold or touch a dog to keep him steady; or (3) noisily or frequently restrain a dog on line, except in extraordinary circumstances, from the time the handler signals readiness for the birds to be thrown until the dog’s number is called. Violation of any of the provisions of this paragraph is sufficient cause to justify elimination from the stake. During the period from the moment when the handler signals readiness for the birds to be thrown until the dog’s number is called, the handler of the working or honoring dog shall remain silent. Also, in all marking tests during such period, the handler’s hands shall remain quietly in close proximity to his body. A handler who projects his hand during such period, whether for the purpose of assisting his dog to locate a fall or otherwise, should be considered to have used a threatening gesture, and his dog penalized accordingly.

I used the wrong word... Threaten..
synonym for 'threaten' --- 'intimidation' Synonyms of threaten |
That is a lot different than,
"intimidate the dog" or "touch the dog"
Two often quoted "rules" that are not in the rule book.
the word intimidate IS a synonym for threaten.
Yes and the word threaten was chosen for a reason.
I ran a very long down the shore water blind at a trial yesterday when it was quite cold. The dogs that took cast into the water and stayed in did so largely because of a level of intimidation.
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I am sure it was and pity the sole who uses one word in the place of another - even though they are OFTEN used synonymously....
Synonymous does not mean exactly the same, and the full context of a rule matters. Surely you know that.
You mean the dogs that succeeded were fearful of making a wrong choice, rather than happy to make the right choice?
I mean both. If you trust your dog to always get in the water just out of the goodness of his heart and joy of doing so you will never have an all age retriever.
I saw a bunch of well trained dogs yesterday 16 went to the water blind and I didn't see a pig among them. Only about a third of them did it well, but it was a huge blind for a Q. Any dog that finished is ready for all age.
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I agree... they do not mean exactly the same... and I will keep in mind your wisdom in making sure the exactly correct verbiage is used in discussion.
If you're upset with me, so be it. When you use partial quotes and substitute synonyms for what is written in the rulebook you can, and do, misrepresent with the rules clearly state.
And why didn't you answer my question reguarding the use of the hat?
Acting like you are going to strike your dog with a hat or anything else during a trial is clearly in violation of the rules. Not sure how it's relevant here.
I didn't ask for your input, either. But there you go, giving it anyway.
You posted a question on a public forum, so yes, you did ask for input.
If only one judge saw it. .... just as if only one judge heard the word sit.... Maybe the handler had a wasp stinging his thigh😂
It's a rule violation, whether anyone saw it or not.
I would like to think that at the end of a blind, if my dog did a great job, I could physically love her up before leaving the line.. but I am not dumb enough to try.
You could and no one would care.

Use whatever phrases you want and continue to misquote the rulebook. You have every right to do so, but it isn't helpful.
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if you judge long enough you will encounter unscrupulous individuals.
Everyone I know with a lot of judging experience has stories. I always ask the people I know and trust about potential co-judges before committing to an assignment. There a many people I look forward to judging with and some I would refuse to.
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Well, I've been judging since 1995 and I'm 70 years old. Time is getting short. :ROFLMAO:
Only 2 1/2 decades left.
Ok so I have a question about the first part of this rule I emphasized in red. What about when a handler removes his hat to accentuate his cast while running a blind??? I really have no problem with it and never seen a judge have a problem with it but when reading this rule it would seem to be illegal. I have seen it used many times.
I see nothing in the rule that says a hat is illegal. What makes you think is is?
HA! I hope you're right and I hope that they're good ones.
I have friends older than you that are getting puppies this spring.
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\May be some think it is a training aid
Probably, that's why I ask about gloves and white coats. I ran a trial last weekend and I don't think I saw a single handler that didn't have at least two of those three items.
Update, just ordered, I will report Jumbo and Che’s opinion after wearing it in various light conditions.
If you wear it to Metro we're gonna make fun of you.
EdA, I know an individual that wore this as a color of choice to handle with. Swore the dogs could see this better than white.
I suspect that how shiny the fabric is has more to do with it than color. I know some swear that their dogs can see orange but I have never seen evidence of it.
I know my dogs can pick out a shiny new orange bumper from a considerable distance when it is sunny and have to hunt for the same if it is cloudy.
whispered, real soft sssiiiiiiitttttttttttt?
the foot slide
Never seen or heard about a nobody being tossed for either one.
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It takes two Judges to drop a dog.
The Judge that believes he heard the infraction may give the dog a zero, however the other Judge must score the run as they see it....
At the end do the math and score the dog accordingly..
Generally with a Zero anywhere on the card the dog isn't going anywhere and would more than likely be dropped from contention....
There are no cards or zeros in field trial judging, other than what an individual judge might choose to make themself.
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So, if that is not an acceptable way to signal the guns, what is?
My preference is a brightly colored hat, orange, paddle, clipboard, etc. and be conscious of where the shadow is cast.
Also, a pretty good idea to have someone call for birds with a towel in training and intentionally cast a shadow on the dog. Then when it happens at a trial, it won't be the first time the dog has ever seen it.
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A bright red MAGA hat works well.:cool:
What would happen if the judges asked handlers to blow a call?
Worst case scenario? Insertion
How many duck calls would a FT Marshall have to have on hand?
Remember the current debate is over white coats vs high vis green for a "normal days shoot".
As a former poster used to say here, these people don't even understand a normal day.
Great contribution Sped.

Just an idea for your next hunt test.
Since you obviously can't conquer the urge, try using the duck call backwards, it will make noise when you instinctively suck on it and you could actually pass for a change.
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