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i have 2 GSP's, about 6 months old. and i have heard great things about them being retrievers, and i am seriously considering sending them to a trainer for retrieving. i was wondering what yalls opinion was on this.
 

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What ttraining have you done with the dog? What kind of rettrieving do you need?
 

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I wouldn't send them to a retriever trainer unless that person has a lot of pointing dog experience. They will not do well with the force and typical retriever program as a general rule. I'm sure some guy will say they do but, there is a reason only maybe one or two GSP's came out of the woodwork and passed a couple hunt tests beyond JH last year. If someone is successful at pointer and retriever hunt tests I might consider it. GSP's and pointing dogs in general as not forgiving and will shut down with pressure. ("most" professional retriever trainers use pressure and force fetch based systems for training because its faster and more effective for retrievers)
 

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I have a couple of friends who do lots of dove and duck hunting early season.Their dogs are awesome in the heat and are machines.I always wanted one.Both are amateur trained ff,cc and run simple blinds.Later in the season the labs come out because of the cold.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
just retrieving ducks, not looking to do any competitions or hunt test, im in louisiana, so im not to worried about the cold. but when it does get chilly, ill get them a vest. i havent gotten to do to much training with them, besides getting their prey drive up, ive worked with them on quail, i can get them to hold, while i let a quail go run around and will not go get it until i say okay. The guy im sending them t, is supposed to be great with pointers, and quite a few people i have talked to have recommended for me to send my pointers to him.
 

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They can be force fetched and the few i have seen took the pressure fine... they are actually pretty high strung with the pressure and seem to not give in as easy... Just from what i have seen...
 

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Few of the greatest GSP Field Trial Champions have ever really been FF'd. Why you will ask? Because they only must make ONE single retrieve in their career. They don't shoot birds over Field Trial Pointers in AKC Competition. Just flush and a .22 blank shot.
 

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I had one in training last summer that is primarily an upland dog, but he did single marks surprisingly well. Went hard, ran straight and marked well. He came to me because his owner was having trouble getting him to pick up birds. I FF'd him and he did great. Like any dog, I adjusted my process to his temperament. He's picked up a ton of doves, a few ducks and a bunch of pheasant and quail since then. Nice dog. That said, I haven't tried to put him through the whole program to get him running blinds, so I can't speak to that. I have a friend back in Florida who runs shorthairs in HRC hunt tests and does well. I like his dogs a lot.
I have another GSP that just got here for evaluation. We'll see how she works out.
Like I told her owner, I have done retrieving work on pointing breeds, but I am NOT a pointing dog trainer. I'm a retriever trainer.
The point to all this is there are some that will make nice retrievers and some that probably will not. If I were planning on running upper level retriever hunt tests, I would start with a different breed. If I were looking for a pointing dog that could pick up ducks out of the decoys in milder weather, I might go with a GSP.
 

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Most GSPs make great, enthusiastic retrievers.
I don't think the breed makes or breaks any training,there are high strung lab/golden,etc washouts,too.
If you have a pedigree that is loaded with FT lines you may have your work cut out for you in the duck blind with calmness. Your biggest issue may not be retrieving, it may be swimming.
I train my shorthairs just like a retriever with all the vdog stuff added in and they do just fine.
 

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forgot to add, most vdog owners don't do retriever tests b/c its a fairly new concept and hasn't caught on yet.With the fun vdog tests available many probably don't want to participate in retriever tests. Check into your local NAVHDA chapter.
 

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Paul, in AKC they do if there is a bird field and not just a flush on the back course. It will be listed in the premium. I ran and owned GSP trial dogs before labs. It was/is a requirement to retrieve to hand. I FFd ALL my GSP.
Sheesh, what knappy dog owners know.

:)

Jeff
 

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Paul, in AKC they do if there is a bird field and not just a flush on the back course. It will be listed in the premium. I ran and owned GSP trial dogs before labs. It was/is a requirement to retrieve to hand. I FFd ALL my GSP.
Sheesh, what knappy dog owners know.

:)

Jeff
You confused with a AKC Pointer Hunt Test? Because when I was planting birds on horseback there was not a bird shot until one dog had a call back and got to do a 20 yard retrieve at the end of the day outside of the 30 minute brace. Early in the day, one dog is on top right of this frame on point with one backing. No birds were shot until the very end of the day.

 

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I am training right now for the NAVHDA Invitational with my GSP. I am training over 200 yd blind retrieves. My boy does not do super long marks, but that is my fault because I have not exposed him to anything longer than say 75-80 yds. I do not have a regular training buddy that can go out and throw marks for me at 100-150 yds or longer. I also FF'ed my boy about a year and a half ago, there were no issues in doing so. I know a lot of people who have taught me how to prepare for this invitational, so I'm sure they were doing the same thing with the GSP's they trained for this event. I would do like the one person mentioned, check out local NAVHDA and they can help.
 

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Why not just get a real retriever like an American Water Spaniel?
 

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I wouldn't send them to a retriever trainer unless that person has a lot of pointing dog experience. They will not do well with the force and typical retriever program as a general rule. I'm sure some guy will say they do but, there is a reason only maybe one or two GSP's came out of the woodwork and passed a couple hunt tests beyond JH last year. If someone is successful at pointer and retriever hunt tests I might consider it. GSP's and pointing dogs in general as not forgiving and will shut down with pressure. ("most" professional retriever trainers use pressure and force fetch based systems for training because its faster and more effective for retrievers)
Hmmmm?..Now there is Interesting!? For me . I gotta ask 'why'? Programmes are now Breed Specific? huh?
 

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Hmmmm?..Now there is Interesting!? For me . I gotta ask 'why'? Programmes are now Breed Specific? huh?
Less emphasis on a pointer for man-made abilities in my opinion. While a dog might look like a natural running a blind it never, ever would have done it all by itself. Would it chase a lowflying, injured duck? Absolutely. I guess that assumption is that you'd be working the dog for the purpose it was intended. Can a lab be trained as a Schutzhund dog? I'm certain it could be and I'm sure guys could train a German Shepard to be a retriever. The programs are developed by people who are experts with the breed they train. I think a person would have to use different techniques and tailor the programs to fit the dog. This doesn't widely apply to Lab folks. Lets face it, Labs are the most popular and most successful dogs because they're generic. Pull it further apart by retriever breeds. There are trainers successful with labs who couldn't train a Chesapeake to fetch a cheese burger from a paper bag. They've made many a lab but, never a Chessie. Said trainers even tried with many. Their training program didn't fit the breed.

Take that program and apply it to a breed that should need little training to do what it was BRED to do, point upland birds and start teaching many concepts which are contrary to the genetics and my opinion is that you end up with a dog who can do many tasks but, does few well.
 

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Hmmmm?..gotta ask 'why'? Programmes are now Breed Specific? huh?
One reason is, as I told your abrasive S'African matey, only pointing dog handlers sing to their dogs in trials. So they have to get with the Gene Autry program, or programme, on that score.:wink:

But happy's right, most pointing dog trials do not require a retrieve, American Field field trials in particular. The birds are blank-gunned, not killed, thus no retrieving opportunities. As such, many, I would say hazard a high majority of trial pointers and setters are never trained to retrieve.

You will also find 1 in 1,000 GSPs or Drahthaars (or Weims or Vizslak) that are put through a retriever program, Robt. A few more may undergo it nowadays since those breeds and other continentals are eligible for AKC retriever hunt tests. The retrieving in NAVHDA tests is minimal and where at the "Invitational" a rudimentary water blind is required, it's most often accomplished without any handling of the dog as it takes a straight course across a body of water to find the bird at the water's edge on the far shore.

MG
 

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A friend of mine went to the NAVHDA National. It really isn't a "blind" by retriever standards from his description. Dogs are allowed to hunt. The only "blind" (where they get the name) is the fact that the dog did not see nor, hear a gunshot. Many use the word, "Hunt Dead" as the cue to take off running around and find a feather.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I had one in training last summer that is primarily an upland dog, but he did single marks surprisingly well. Went hard, ran straight and marked well. He came to me because his owner was having trouble getting him to pick up birds. I FF'd him and he did great. Like any dog, I adjusted my process to his temperament. He's picked up a ton of doves, a few ducks and a bunch of pheasant and quail since then. Nice dog. That said, I haven't tried to put him through the whole program to get him running blinds, so I can't speak to that. I have a friend back in Florida who runs shorthairs in HRC hunt tests and does well. I like his dogs a lot.
I have another GSP that just got here for evaluation. We'll see how she works out.
Like I told her owner, I have done retrieving work on pointing breeds, but I am NOT a pointing dog trainer. I'm a retriever trainer.
The point to all this is there are some that will make nice retrievers and some that probably will not. If I were planning on running upper level retriever hunt tests, I would start with a different breed. If I were looking for a pointing dog that could pick up ducks out of the decoys in milder weather, I might go with a GSP.
thanks matt, thats exactly what im wanting to do with my dogs, just retrieve ducks out of a set of decoys. now after i get them back from training, i plan on training them to be docks dogs, i think that will be a fun activity for me and my dogs to particite in.
 

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thanks matt, thats exactly what im wanting to do with my dogs, just retrieve ducks out of a set of decoys. now after i get them back from training, i plan on training them to be docks dogs, i think that will be a fun activity for me and my dogs to particite in.
There are quite a few folks who train around here that have GSP's that love swimming and fetching in the water. Will do it all day. I didn't mean my dialog to be discouraging in any way. I just would never pick a retriever trainer to experiment with their retriever training on your pointing dog.
 
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