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@Tom Cheatham @Norwester

@Norwester here is the rule, not part of it, but the whole rule.

After birds have been shot, all Guns shall remain quiet and shall not move their positions unless and until so instructed by the Judges. Judges may instruct Guns and their associated bird thrower to retire from the sight of the dog, or dogs, on line provided that every reasonable efforts must be made to insure that the movement of retired Guns is only permitted at a time and under conditions to minimize the chance that the running dog will be distracted by such movements.
The permitted movement of retired Guns and their associated bird throwers should be limited to the minimum distance required for effective concealment. Such retirement should be in a direction away from the direction in which the bird is thrown. Retired Guns and throwers should

At the end of the day the rule is written as such that the judges can do whatever they want. Whether you like it or agree with it or not, is another discussion I do not wish to enter in to.
 

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Thanks Daren for that response and comment.
I do agree at the end of the day the judges will do whatever they want.

In my opinion retiring in the manner that was under discussion did not fulfil the written obligation where "every reasonable efforts must be made to insure that the movement of retired Guns is only permitted at a time and under conditions to minimize the chance that the running dog will be distracted by such movements. "

It is also my opinion and just that as again, I'm not a judge, is that I think a more reasonable attempt would have been retiring the guns after the dog was returning from picking up the first bird regardless of the order thrown.
Clearly that is not everyone's opinion and most certainly not of the judges involved in the discussion.
And that's fair, I get it and it made for thought provoking debate and that's why I brought it up to begin with.
 

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It is also my opinion and just that as again, I'm not a judge, is that I think a more reasonable attempt would have been retiring the guns after the dog was returning from picking up the first bird regardless of the order thrown.
I'd primary select the short but not yet retired.
 

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Right, and the general consensus from the discussion is that as you sent your dog for that short bird the gunner would be moving to retire as your dog left the line possibly distracting the dog as he/she advances toward the fall.
 

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Right, and the general consensus from the discussion is that as you sent your dog for that short bird the gunner would be moving to retire as your dog left the line possibly distracting the dog as he/she advances toward the fall.
I would primary select if they did this.
retiring the guns after the dog was returning from picking up the first bird
 

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I would primary select if they did this.
So the implication here perhaps is that the judges had the gunners retire the way they did to prevent competitors from using primary selection therefore in theory finding a way to "beat" the test?
If so that, like I wrote previously in the other thread is unfortunate as it removes an important and intriguing way to approach the setup.

If I had to guess I would bet there would not be many that would have attempted to primary/first bird select but it sure would have put an interesting and entertaining swing on the test if they had.
 

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So the implication here perhaps is that the judges had the gunners retire the way they did to prevent competitors from using primary selection therefore in theory finding a way to "beat" the test?
If so that, like I wrote previously in the other thread is unfortunate as it removes an important and intriguing way to approach the setup.

If I had to guess I would bet there would not be many that would have attempted to primary/first bird select but it sure would have put an interesting and entertaining swing on the test if they had.
No. They retired them in a reasonable manner and a similar manner that is done at every field trial across America every weekend. Handlers are more than welcome to primary select.

An All Age dog is not going to be that distracted by a gun retiring while in route.
 

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No. They retired them in a reasonable manner and a similar manner that is done at every field trial across America every weekend. Handlers are more than welcome to primary select.

An All Age dog is not going to be that distracted by a gun retiring while in route.
If it's always done this way and a AA dog would not be THAT distracted then it's all good.
 

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Retiring when the dog is returning with the first bird turns the long retired into a stand out gun for those handlers that primary select on that station.
That makes a very different test relative to the dogs that get a go-bird flyer first.

Retire when the dog leaves the line or when the dog leaves the line and is out of sight or when the dog hits the water seems more common than retiring when the dog returns with the first bird.
 
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