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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Keith serious question for ya since you are Guru on AKC rules...........

I presently have training with me a 5 1/2 month BLM who's owner/handler is blind. The pup has been CC to here, sits (vioce and whistle), and is in the process of learning heel. Pup is doing single land marks in low cover out to 80-90 yds and water marks to 60 yards.
Along with with wearing his e-collar he also wears a thin collar with a small bell on it. This is so the handler can tell when he is returning with the mark and he is learning a frontal sit for delivery of the bird and then moves to the heel position.
Pup and handler are doing quite well.
The handler I might add hunts pheasant, bow hunts for deer and shoots trap quite well. Amazing accomplishments considering she is blind.
To her accomplishments she plans on running AKC & NFRA HTs.

My question is this, as I don't necessarily see it as a problem in Junior but Senior will be a different story.
The pup wears a bell to help the handler know his location especially on returning with a mark for delivery purposes.
How will this be addressed as far as the AKC is concerned?
Should this be only a concern at the FTC and Judges level of a Stake?
Should this be addressed before entering a HT with the sponsoring club?

Senior will be a whole different story as no collar are allowed on the dawgs.
Her husband normally stands behind her and will be giving her guidance on mark locations. Will this be permitted because now we're talking about doubles? How about the bell issue, will the dawg be allowed to wear it?
How about accidently touching the dawg to take the bird?
Blinds will be a different story also................though she will be doing the handling.......her husband will have to tell her when to blow the whistle.....will this be allowed?

Believe me Keith, this has kept me on my toes as a trainer..........but the handler is determine to put a MH on the pup in the future and plans on running Junior next year......so I thought I'd ask now...

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.............
 

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Sorry to butt in, but I think it will need to be addressed also for Juniors, even though they can wear a collar, there can't be anything hanging off of it.....no I'm not looking at a rulebook and am going off of memory...

Oh yeah KG may be at a trial???

FOM
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Lainee, just trying to think of issues that may create a problem.

I don't think any of the other handlers would find a issue with, because as the pups handler said.................'anyone with an issue with it is more than welcome to place a bell on their dawg and a blindfold on themselves and run the marks'....................... :shock:
 

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Polock said:
Thanks Lainee, just trying to think of issues that may create a problem.

I don't think any of the other handlers would find a issue with, because as the pups handler said.................'anyone with an issue with it is more than welcome to place a bell on their dawg and a blindfold on themselves and run the marks'....................... :shock:
Dan,

Why not ask Bill Speck to get the "official" answer (something you can print out and save for future use)?

Jeff
 

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Jeff makes a good point. :!:

Copy and paste the above scenario to [email protected]. Personally, I would have no problem with the collar with the bell on it or her husband "coaching" her from behind the line....but that's just me.

She's without the most important of the 5 senses IMHO....cutting her (and the dog) a break under that circumstance alone will allow the AKC HT program to be inclusive.

JMHO as always. :wink:

And Lainee....it's next weekend I'll be judging....and the Chattanooga trial is the weekend after that....but thanks for the good thoughts!

Keith
 

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K G said:
And Lainee....it's next weekend I'll be judging....and the Chattanooga trial is the weekend after that....but thanks for the good thoughts!
;) Wasn't sure, don't think Polock would care less if he had to wait till Monday to hear from ya, it is just sometimes people forget that Friday's are a FT day and people are sometimes out of pocket and you are one of those giver types vs. takers so wasn't sure if you'd be helping out some where......1 more hour and I can hit the road myself.......

Lainee, Flash and Bullet
 

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Luck Lainee, all of it good.
 

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Howard N said:
Luck Lainee, all of it good.
Thanks Howard, but for some reason I'm extremely nervous about this Qual?? I hate that feeling.....not a good training week either.....dang dogs....

FOM
 

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FOM said:
Howard N said:
Luck Lainee, all of it good.
Thanks Howard, but for some reason I'm extremely nervous about this Qual?? I hate that feeling.....not a good training week either.....dang dogs....

FOM
Lainee that's usually a good sign..... when you have a bad week they usually do better at a trial!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the link Keith, I appreciate it.

And a Thank You to everyones comments.....................it's a very interesting situation.................and I assure everyone it makes ya do some thinking.

She lost her sight during a hospital operation but it hasn't slowed her down a bit..................I've personally watched her knock pheasants down during a youth hunt they sponsor...............it's amazing........... :shock:
She has no concept of distance so I can't say it's a 70 yd mark up a hill............that just doesn't fly................it's more like, 'set me up in the right direction, listen to the attention sound and gun fire, when DOG is called, I'll send'. Dawg returns to frontal delivery and sits, receives bird, and heels dawg to my side..............It puts a smile on my face everytime.............. :) .........I wouldn't trade it for the world..........and I can't wait for the first Q.

She's aready attended an Evan Graham Workshop up here in NY and just took it all in..........................even did her CC work with Evan in front of the group................totally amazing.....................

Her and Cody are a joy to have in class..............as they have been working with this pup since 8 weeks old.........and he knows his stuff..........talk about SOLID OB.........it's an absolute must in this case....

Thanks again folks.................WOW.............what a ride............ :D :wink:
 

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A bit of a different situation: At a Canadian National a handler needed help blowing a whistle due to respiratory problems. The handler blew the whistle and then the "backup" whislter blew.

No handlers had a problem with it.

I would sure not have a problem as a handler or judge at a field trial with what you have described as long other rules, such as no blocking dog on honor etc., were obeyed.
 

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I personally have seen our own Dr. Aycock squat behind a handler with severe enphesyma and blow the sit whistle when signaled by the handler.

The FT rules (somewhere) encourage about anything to help the "handicapped" handler.

If I were to Judge that Lady, and she brought the dog to the line with a bell tied around it's chest, waist, tail, anywhere but it's neck (no collars), it would not bother me ONE BIT!!!! And if ANYONE complained I would get Guthrie or Shayne to bitch slap them!!!!!

Some people have been known to spray paint their dog with Orange paint in order to see them and I see no difference in a bell to "hear" them.

Sometimes we just gotta do what is right.

Jerry
 

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Dan,

Incredible...I hope I get to see this team in action.

I am not a lawyer but a public school educator who has lots of experience with ADA(Americans Disability Act). I look forward to the reply from AKC and hope they realize the importance of your inquiry.

Bell on the collar? No problem for me and seems to be the least restrictive solution to the answer. For those who disagree remember this.......

"On May 29, 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the golfer Casey Martin may use a golf cart to ride in tournaments. The Professional Golfers' Association (PGA) players thought Martin would have an unfair advantage using the cart, but had they known more about Martin's condition they might have understood his request."

Please keep us informed-

Lisas
 

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Dan et al,

I got a phone call from Bill Speck last night. He had just read this thread.

He told me that if your client wants to run AKC events, it's up to the event committee and test judges to determine whether or not a belled collar and a behind-the-line coach are acceptable. He told me that he felt that the majority of clubs would do their best to support any handler (within reason) trying to run their event, regardless of their disability.

He also suggested that your client take it a step further and contact the legal department of AKC and ask for the paperwork necessary to get a variance in procedure to run retriever HTs based on her rights per the ADA. It is my understanding that the paperwork must be filled out by her doctor then be submitted back to the AKC for approval. Based on her handicap, a formal decision would be made with regard to the AKC's stand on her participation.

So there you go. Were it me, I'd do both: I'd work through the AKC process via the ADA and get formal "approval," and I'd also contact the event chairperson for any tests she wants to run and give them a "heads up" on her situation before she enters. As was discussed here previously, I don't see any club or judges precluding her from running....but getting the variance would pretty much seal the deal for the rest of her life.

Let me know if I can be of any further help.

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Keith, I appreciate all your help with this matter and will refer the information on to my client.
It's is my belief that she will take Bill's and your suggestions and get the AKC approval regarding ADA, then go thru the Field Chair of each test prior to entering so they are aware of the situation upfront and can inform the judges accordingly.

I know I look forward to watching her compete and challenge the elements of the test as presented, and she works at it with great enthusiasm............constantly keeping me on my toes, adjusting the training as needed, while still staying within the rules.............

Thanks a million for the help and again thanks for the link to Bill............ :wink:
 

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Polock said:
She's aready attended an Evan Graham Workshop up here in NY and just took it all in..........................even did her CC work with Evan in front of the group................totally amazing.....................
:
She did a better job than a lot of people with sight could do. She handled a 6 month old pup on a long check cord and never missed a beat. It was pretty impressive to watch. It was 8)
 

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Polock said:
She lost her sight during a hospital operation but it hasn't slowed her down a bit..................I've personally watched her knock pheasants down during a youth hunt they sponsor...............it's amazing........... :shock:
She has no concept of distance so I can't say it's a 70 yd mark up a hill............that just doesn't fly................it's more like, 'set me up in the right direction, listen to the attention sound and gun fire, when DOG is called, I'll send'. Dawg returns to frontal delivery and sits, receives bird, and heels dawg to my side..............It puts a smile on my face everytime.............. :) .........I wouldn't trade it for the world..........and I can't wait for the first Q.

She's aready attended an Evan Graham Workshop up here in NY and just took it all in..........................even did her CC work with Evan in front of the group................totally amazing.....................

Her and Cody are a joy to have in class..............as they have been working with this pup since 8 weeks old.........and he knows his stuff..........talk about SOLID OB.........it's an absolute must in this case....

Dan, this is absolutely inspiring! And good on you for reaching beyond your normal training regimen. Keep us posted on progress.
 
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