A friend of mine is breeding his black male English lab with a brown American lab. I can't find anything on the web about how this dog will look when it gets big, and no one I know has any answers for me either. I don't want to have an odd looking lab. Any answers? I'm interested in how the build of a half English half American lab will turn out.
The UK Kennel Club Lab Breed Standard says "Wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox. Small white spot on chest permissible." In common parlance Labs are said to be chocolate (though there are very few chocco working dogs) and Springers are referred to as liver. BTW the Management makes a magnificent liver and onions with a madeira sauce / gravy. Next time you're up this neck of the woods come and give it a try.The English called chocolates "liver" last I knew. Brown is a fine term by me. Sounds better than liver actually.... but then I've never really acquired a taste for liver.
The blackfeller below is actually Welsh but he certainly is a worker. Typical (if nice) example of FT stock in UK and Ireland. The yellow boy is also by a FTCh. and did a bit in Trials himself. Contrast and compare to the third pic, an award winning show dog from Crufts last year. Porker.English WORKING dogs look just like their American counterpart.
What is your definition of "field lines"? Are we talking about HT titled show dogs or real field trial dogs? I don't see the point in blending the two. (Not to sound rude about your dog) but it seems these blends can not excell in either the field or the show ring. The seem to fall into the middle. I have seen them advertised as neither high strung or to much show etc. that of course is just mouth run. Seen hyper hot mess show labs and mellow field trial dogs.View attachment 16698 View attachment 16699 Stewart is my 6 generation of breeding, fourth of blending show and field lines. He is a working machine and not bad to look at. I could not get him fat if I tried! Blending field and show works if the breeder knows structure and ability AND temperament. The pay off is after several generations though. The first out cross will likely lack consistency....so if you are getting an outcross puppy expect a variable within the litter
Paul "Happy" Gilmore;1176196 I assume you aren't expecting to make show CH or field trial titles with the middle of the road dogs?[/QUOTE said:Hmm the show probably No, you can't train looks . As for FT who knows, If the dogs got skill, goes out and does it. The performance world, has a reputation for not caring, if the dog looks like a grey-hound or a bus, as long as they can do. Enough time, enough training, enough campaigning, a bit of luck on a certain day and who knows. This is the great thing about performance events, it's in the doing. Heck even those Chessies and Goldens pull it out of the woodwork sometimes j/k
Jeff, I compared retriever to retriever not apples to oranges. And if you thank God that your dogs weren't bred with the breed standard in mind, you shouldn't have any issues if someone says they're completely incorrect for the breed.I have no plans to show in AKC show ring. I was refering to the way hound events are held. As far as the standard, yes I agree mine where not bred to the AKC Lab Standard (thank God). Saying that they are not bred to the standard makes them all one breed. So a field lab and a field beagle are the same breed? One hunts in packs for fur, the other is a honed bird machine. How about a Field bred Lab and and a working german shepard, I know which one I would not want to meet in a dark alley.Your out late season goose hunting in MI do you think a field bred English pointer, or a field bred lab would be the better choice. Standards may have there place, but that lab standard needs emergency cpr
Pauhl, What 90% of show labs do you have personal experience with? I've been to a number of WCs. Seen some nice runs out of show bred dogs and seen some sad.... same with field bred dogs that came.Nichole 90% of show labs are a hot mess and this is due to folks saying the same tag line "breeding to the standard". Have you ever watched a WC? Hot mess
My Plan is to make the next DUAL CH Labrador. I am 52 yrs old, I figure I have 30 yrs to try and get it done...I can understand the thought process about it all. Middle of the road not too much of this, not too much of that concept. It's easy to sell because it makes sense to most people.
I assume you aren't expecting to make show CH or field trial titles with the middle of the road dogs?
I could not have told you when Westminster is held.Jeff, I compared retriever to retriever not apples to oranges. And if you thank God that your dogs weren't bred with the breed standard in mind, you shouldn't have any issues if someone says they're completely incorrect for the breed.
I've known you long enough to know we are never going to agree on these labs.Its not personal.How many times since 1980 has the Labrador Club Of America revised the standard?When they revise the standard, do they ever happen to look at what our FT dogs are required to do?Have you happened to see the January edition of the Retriever News? These Retrievers that compete at the National Open Championship are what should be representative of their respective breeds IMHO .
Pauhl, What 90% of show labs do you have personal experience with? I've been to a number of WCs. Seen some nice runs out of show bred dogs and seen some sad.... same with field bred dogs that came.
I think we'll agree that nobody who's actually competitive in either venue (trials or show) would want to waste a breeding in such a way. On the other hand, 99% of these breedings aren't truly show bred (english) to field bred (american) as much as two "pet bred" labradors bred together.... one of which might have a blockier head so they call it english and the other is fine boned so they call it american.
As for the show bred lab bash any thread that mentions them quickly becomes... boring. And if you waste all your super clever zingers now, whatever will you talk about when westminster rolls around next month?
You go girl!!!My Plan is to make the next DUAL CH Labrador. I am 52 yrs old, I figure I have 30 yrs to try and get it done...
I absolutely do hope to create a dog that gets at least QAA/ CH