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My Plan is to make the next DUAL CH Labrador. I am 52 yrs old, I figure I have 30 yrs to try and get it done... :p
I absolutely do hope to create a dog that gets at least QAA/ CH
Bridget are you showing AKC or UKC? I've heard the UKC is more lenient of Show placements for Field bred dogs, in the retrieving breeds. I do hope you continue to try in both venues, but fear you'll need an amazing constitution to stick it out. Most performance people will shut their mouths, once your dog shows he can do it. I think the show type are the harder sell they know what they want a lab to look like, don't really like the different. Still it's good to have people crossing back and forth, giving judges other things to look at, maybe we'll swing back toward a medium, I seriously doubt it but I'd like to be proven wrong ;).
 

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I commend anyone trying to make a DC from show labs. I do, honestly. I think most folks would start off investigating how difficult trials are to begin with and just get something which increases the odds of winning from the start. I understand your logic of not taking what could be "presumed" as the easy road. Hey, I have Chesapeakes. :) Cry me a river. lol. I have been around plenty of show labs. And I'm definitely not pointing any names out for you Nichole. I live at a kennel and retriever training grounds. I see it all. However, I'm no pro. I've also attended many dog shows and I myself have been in the show ring ONCE:) I've been to advanced OBED classes in the past. I'm fairly well rounded.

We hear it all the time, folks complaining they don't have a place to train, they don't have water, they don't have birds and on and on and on and on. Bottom line is that if you don't get out, "proof" your breeding by getting a title, training for hunting etc, then, just breed the dog because it has a few ribbons from a dog show, you've done the breed ZERO due diligence and really are contributing to the negative aspects which often are the cherished conversations ringside.

Obviously, Bridget has a respectable focus and goal and judging by her signature has some titles and bred to titled dogs. I commend that anyday. Is it my cup of tea? not really. From the standpoint of generally speaking, I've seen far more show labs with a lack of interest in feather, lack of prey drive than any other breed which comes through this place. Dogs messing up at a WC is often training. I get that. I've seen it and volunteered to help run three lab WC's. Often, it's the first time I think many ever see a bird each year. I guess that isn't the dogs fault. However, when dogs are worked with one on one and have no, I mean ZERO interest in birds yet they are bred because they get a special ribbon one day.....that isn't good business. You definitely don't see the field trial breedings following that lead.
 

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A friend of mine is breeding his black male English lab with a brown American lab. I can't find anything on the web about how this dog will look when it gets big, and no one I know has any answers for me either. I don't want to have an odd looking lab. Any answers? I'm interested in how the build of a half English half American lab will turn out.
Do you mean "English" as is "show/conformation" dog, or "English" as is from UK field lines?
 

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I commend anyone trying to make a DC from show labs. I do, honestly. I think most folks would start off investigating how difficult trials are to begin with and just get something which increases the odds of winning from the start. I understand your logic of not taking what could be "presumed" as the easy road. Hey, I have Chesapeakes. :) Cry me a river. lol. I have been around plenty of show labs. And I'm definitely not pointing any names out for you Nichole. I live at a kennel and retriever training grounds. I see it all. However, I'm no pro. I've also attended many dog shows and I myself have been in the show ring ONCE:) I've been to advanced OBED classes in the past. I'm fairly well rounded.

We hear it all the time, folks complaining they don't have a place to train, they don't have water, they don't have birds and on and on and on and on. Bottom line is that if you don't get out, "proof" your breeding by getting a title, training for hunting etc, then, just breed the dog because it has a few ribbons from a dog show, you've done the breed ZERO due diligence and really are contributing to the negative aspects which often are the cherished conversations ringside.

Obviously, Bridget has a respectable focus and goal and judging by her signature has some titles and bred to titled dogs. I commend that anyday. Is it my cup of tea? not really. From the standpoint of generally speaking, I've seen far more show labs with a lack of interest in feather, lack of prey drive than any other breed which comes through this place. Dogs messing up at a WC is often training. I get that. I've seen it and volunteered to help run three lab WC's. Often, it's the first time I think many ever see a bird each year. I guess that isn't the dogs fault. However, when dogs are worked with one on one and have no, I mean ZERO interest in birds yet they are bred because they get a special ribbon one day.....that isn't good business. You definitely don't see the field trial breedings following that lead.
This is why I bought my Grady dog, to get into the trials. His first derby we made it to the third series. The next two , out in the first.
THis is also why I train with Pat Burns two-three times a year, to learn how to make a trial dog , or at least to give the dog the foundation he will need to be able to eval and either wash or send to a full time field trial pro. I know structure and I know temperament and I know trainability and I know talent, that is a pretty good knowledge base to start with.
I am sure I will wash out a lot of dogs...before even remotely coming close. I am also FULLY aware that I will have to give the dog to a pro show handler and play with bettering the odds.

It is a dream and I am gonna try , can't get it done , if nobody tries ;)

Hunt em up a Dual CH to me is AKC FC/CH. ( I would settle for AFC though :) )
 

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The UK Kennel Club Lab Breed Standard says "Wholly black, yellow or liver/chocolate. Yellows range from light cream to red fox. Small white spot on chest permissible." In common parlance Labs are said to be chocolate (though there are very few chocco working dogs) and Springers are referred to as liver. BTW the Management makes a magnificent liver and onions with a madeira sauce / gravy. Next time you're up this neck of the woods come and give it a try.

The blackfeller below is actually Welsh but he certainly is a worker. Typical (if nice) example of FT stock in UK and Ireland. The yellow boy is also by a FTCh. and did a bit in Trials himself. Contrast and compare to the third pic, an award winning show dog from Crufts last year. Porker.








You can't help but think if you gave that show dog a five month picking up season in these Welsh hills, starting slowly and changing that plob into muscle, by Feb 1 you'd have decent looking, good strong dog; Lord knows what his working potential is though. I sometimes think our labs could do with a bit more bone, but the show bench doesn't seem the place to find it, too much physical and mental baggage. I'd advise the OP tae gang varra warrily.

Eug
The black dog is stunning!!!!!!!
 

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Jeff, I compared retriever to retriever not apples to oranges. And if you thank God that your dogs weren't bred with the breed standard in mind, you shouldn't have any issues if someone says they're completely incorrect for the breed.


In each case I referenced. The AKC breed standard was not considered. And if someone Says my labs are completely incorrect for the breed. I would say, they are not very knowledgeable on what a Labrador is supposed to be. I am short, fat and have a hard time swimming, I also don't like picking up ducks with my mouth. Maybe I can make the Lab standard:confused:
Pauhl, What 90% of show labs do you have personal experience with? I've been to a number of WCs. Seen some nice runs out of show bred dogs and seen some sad.... same with field bred dogs that came.

I think we'll agree that nobody who's actually competitive in either venue (trials or show) would want to waste a breeding in such a way. On the other hand, 99% of these breedings aren't truly show bred (english) to field bred (american) as much as two "pet bred" labradors bred together.... one of which might have a blockier head so they call it english and the other is fine boned so they call it american.

As for the show bred lab bash any thread that mentions them quickly becomes... boring. And if you waste all your super clever zingers now, whatever will you talk about when westminster rolls around next month? ;)
I don't know anything about the show ring
 

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I don't know anything about the show ring
I think most of that was pointed towards me:) If you have a field dog it is not the correct "type" because the LRC has written the standard and all the judges get to interpret MOST of what that standard means to them except for a few written "musts". Don't buy in to any show person who talks about "type" ect. Most of it falls on the popularity contest and trends set by the judges. Every single handler who is a professional will tell you certain judges like a dog carrying more weight or, one with more stop on the muzzle or, more rear angulation etc. The list goes on. The standard and "type" is all subjective regardless of how the written standard is waived in the air.
 

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I keep a thumbnail of Banjo on my desktop as believe he's a nicely made lab.

 

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Hunt em up a Dual CH to me is AKC FC/CH. ( I would settle for AFC though :) )
I understand that however, as you've got 30yrs ;). You might try the UKC shows as a stepping stone on conformation evaluation, for the field-i-er labs you produce. It might enable you to put some show titles on along with your performance titles, thus a quicker result in Dual titled dogs, until you have what you need to make a mark in the AKC show venue. I know a few Golden people who have gone this way UKC CH-GCH with their field Goldens, who have FT points. Helps them not get so beaten down by just showing them in AKC, where they really can't compete yet.
 

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Blake 5.jpg Heres another one of mine. Don't know how to blow it up though, it will get a little bigger if you click it. I think that mix makes a very handsome dog. He is only 9 months in that pic and he is 84 lbs and solid with not an ounce of fat on him. In my opinion, he would be the perfect dog if he would let me cut his toe nails, haha.
 

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View attachment 16711 Heres another one of mine. Don't know how to blow it up though, it will get a little bigger if you click it. I think that mix makes a very handsome dog. He is only 9 months in that pic and he is 84 lbs and solid with not an ounce of fat on him. In my opinion, he would be the perfect dog if he would let me cut his toe nails, haha.
Ears too small, slight sway back and tail too thin and curly.
 
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